# Are people today expected to be more confident than in the past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853 "2010-07-24T17:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/1 "2010-07-24T17:19:10Z")
Today, people are much more often told to be more confident when interacting with other people. However, people are rarely if ever told the opposite: to be more modest or unassuming. (Yes people are told to _plan_ more cautiously, but it’s much rarer to hear advice to be more humble in social interaction.) My question is, was this true in the past? Reading fiction from previous times I see messages telling people to be more virtuous, altruistic, and decorous (seeming virtuous in public), but I don’t see praise of confidence for its own sake, which is a pretty common message today (often couched as “self-confidence”). Is there any evidence to the contrary, that folks in the past _were_ strongly exhorted to be more confident than comes naturally to the average person? If so, this raises the question of why people evolved to have a maladaptive skew towards being too timid. If not, I have a theory that might explain the shift over time…but I wanted to make sure I get the facts straight first. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/2 "2010-07-24T17:29:15Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > However, people are rarely if ever told the opposite: to be more modest or unassuming. A lot of people would be much nicer to interact with if they were told that. ---
**Author:** ![Hershon4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/94ad74/32.png) [@Hershon4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershon4)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/3 "2010-07-24T17:49:04Z")
I think people today are a lot more insecure than in the past and in many cases they are frightened and intimidated at secure and confident people as they have a quality they themselves do not possess and try to dismiss them as a result. With women I’ve found that in a lot of cases, a woman will be turned on by someone confident and self assured if they basically want someone to take charge of their lives. The ones that are looking more for someone to control are put off by self confidence as well as those looking for an equal relationship. For myself I learned years ago to to always be self confident and self assured because the bottom line is most people won’t do anything for you unless you ask them straight up on your own. In a work situation if you come across self assured and confident, people respect you more, even if you might not know anything! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/4 "2010-07-25T12:04:42Z")
Candyman74: I’m not so sure about that. Most people that act overly confident are compensating for not feeling confident. The people that aren’t seem to be narcissistic or sociopathic, and thus wouldn’t respond anyways. That also reflects on my answer to the OP: We aren’t expected to be more confident, or we wouldn’t need to constantly be told to be confident. We’re just (in general) less confident, and need the reminder more often. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/5 "2010-07-25T12:43:07Z")
I suspect that there’s no real difference in the self-confidence or humility of people today from previous times. There is only a difference in what virtues (or emotional states) are being pushed by the people who specialize in that sort of preaching, lecturing, writing, teaching, etc. The fact that a psychological state is being pushed doesn’t prove that it’s actually more useful. It just shows that our culture has changed to one in which that attitude is treated as important and useful to be taught. Whether it’s really important and useful is a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/6 "2010-07-25T15:41:25Z")
If instructive fiction needs to tell people they should be more “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous” that means that in real life they were the opposite of “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous.” That kills your theory right thre. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/7 "2010-07-25T16:57:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If instructive fiction needs to tell people they should be more “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous” that means that in real life they were the opposite of “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous.” > > That kills your theory right thre. You’re assuming that the writers of guidebooks somehow hold the same ideal over centuries, and accurately note deviations from that norm. I suspect it’s more likely that popular guidebooks reflect social ideals that many folks strive towards and are positively correlated towards actual behavior, rather than negatively as you assume. Otherwise you’d be forced to assume, for example, that the '60s were unusually conformist and in the '80s nobody cared about money. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/8 "2010-07-25T17:10:34Z")
But modesty and unassumingness (?) are not the opposite of confidence! I think what we’re dealing with here is not so much confidence but a type of brash, socially assertive behaviour that can be inspired by confidence. Now, one can be socially assertive because one knows a field or subject of discussion from experience… or one can be socially assertive and trying to appear that way. But it’s my experience that the truly confident ones, the ones who know from experience, don’t _need_ to be brash and noisy. They simply, quietly, _do_. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/9 "2010-07-25T18:39:10Z")
Perhaps in the past exhortations to be more confident were expressed in different terms, such as the idea that men should be “vigorous” and “robust.” The personality of Teddy Roosevelt comes to mind here. Furthermore, I imagine that physical vitality was more tied into the concept of self-confidence in the more brawn-oriented old days. I’m wondering what effect Freudianism had on this whole process… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/10 "2010-07-25T20:01:16Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > If instructive fiction needs to tell people they should be more “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous” that means that in real life they were the opposite of “virtuous, altruistic, and decorous.” > > > > That kills your theory right thre. > > You’re assuming that the writers of guidebooks somehow hold the same ideal over centuries, and accurately note deviations from that norm. I suspect it’s more likely that popular guidebooks reflect social ideals that many folks strive towards and are positively correlated towards actual behavior, rather than negatively as you assume. > > Otherwise you’d be forced to assume, for example, that the '60s were unusually conformist and in the '80s nobody cared about money. I can’t figure out what you mean by any of this. There are indeed certain virtues that have been preached as Christian ideology for centuries, and in American and western history about 99.9% of all morality has been assumed to be Christian. It wouldn’t be at all surprising to find writers in many eras extolling these virtues. It would be equally unsurprising to find writers in many eras accusing people of lacking these virtues. And you do. Telling people to strive toward them positively is the other side of the coin that says that people are not achieving them in daily life. As for your other paragraph, do you understand what “instructive fiction” is? Are you seriously stating that the “instructive fiction” of the 60s told people to be nonconforming and of the 80s to care about money? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/11 "2010-07-25T20:16:08Z")
If they are, I think it may have to do with the “self-esteem” craze. People act like just being confident can get you anything. Want a really hot girlfriend if you’re a bum? Just act confident! Want a great job? Just be confident! I don’t buy into it, but I think that sort of thinking has taken a big foothold during the past twenty-five years or so. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/12 "2010-07-26T01:15:38Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > But modesty and unassumingness (?) are not the opposite of confidence! > > I think what we’re dealing with here is not so much confidence but a type of brash, socially assertive behaviour that can be inspired by confidence. Now, one can be socially assertive because one knows a field or subject of discussion from experience… or one can be socially assertive and trying to appear that way. But it’s my experience that the truly confident ones, the ones who know from experience, don’t _need_ to be brash and noisy. They simply, quietly, _do_. Yeah, and by _confidence_ I meant brash and socially assertive. The message is usually framed using the word “confidence”, however, regardless of its other definitions. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/13 "2010-07-26T02:27:23Z")
These things vary culturally. In a farm-based society where you live with your extended family, confidence is not as important. Your life is pretty much set up for you and what’s most important is that you fulfill your role. But now we live in a society that values and rewards indepdence. We are expected to find our own path through life, and confidence is useful for that. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/14 "2010-07-26T03:22:53Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > > [@Sunspace](#): > > > > But modesty and unassumingness (?) are not the opposite of confidence! > > > > I think what we’re dealing with here is not so much confidence but a type of brash, socially assertive behaviour that can be inspired by confidence. Now, one can be socially assertive because one knows a field or subject of discussion from experience… or one can be socially assertive and trying to appear that way. But it’s my experience that the truly confident ones, the ones who know from experience, don’t _need_ to be brash and noisy. They simply, quietly, _do_. > > Yeah, and by _confidence_ I meant brash and socially assertive. The message is usually framed using the word “confidence”, however, regardless of its other definitions. Excellent point, and one worth repeating. The confidence that unlocks doors today is not \*self-\*confidence, which is a necessary but not sufficient condition. It’s _social_ confidence - the ability to motivate, manipulate, and make it rain. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/15 "2010-07-26T06:33:17Z")
(Not a factual answer, but none of the others have been…) I think individualism, and ideas like “every person is entitled to fair treatment” etc, are fairly new elements of our culture (yes, I’m aware of the bill of rights, but I mean in _practice_) In the past “confidence” wasn’t something explicitly taught because 1. If you were from a rich family, your importance was drummed into you from day one, whereas if you were from a peasant family, you simply were _not_ important and shouldn’t act confidently. 2. Everyone was supposed to be subservient to the state, the church, to orthodoxy, and so on. Society didn’t want independents. > [@The Bith Shuffle](#): > > If they are, I think it may have to do with the “self-esteem” craze. People act like just being confident can get you anything. Want a really hot girlfriend if you’re a bum? Just act confident! Want a great job? Just be confident! > > I don’t buy into it, but I think that sort of thinking has taken a big foothold during the past twenty-five years or so. I disagree. The older I get, the more I see the value of confidence. Especially for the examples you’ve given. Being confident is massively important in work and love. e.g. I’d bet on a guy that can barely speak english but exudes confidence, over a nervous guy, any day, when it comes to “pickup”. Which is annoying, because it’s a lot harder to artificially become a more confident person than some would have us believe. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Gnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_gnomer/32/3466_2.png) [@Miss\_Gnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Gnomer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/16 "2010-07-26T06:42:20Z")
I’ve always wondered how the modern version of confidence works in with a ‘servant class’. Behaviours we promote as confident would not necessarily make you best at your job if your job was to invisible and clean out fireplaces! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/17 "2010-07-26T12:18:10Z")
**Courage** has long been considered one of the supreme virtues. It seems to me that courage has some overlap with the OP’s idea of confidence, though they’re not synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-today-expected-to-be-more-confident-than-in-the-past/547853/18 "2010-07-26T13:29:49Z")
The level of confidence expected of women before, say, the 1960s in the U.S. with today seems like it was clearly less. Historically, men had the virtues of courage, bravery, strength, and valor. Women had virtues like modesty, nurturing, purity, and subservience.