No, they didn’t. They said that she would die within days of being removed from life support. They’ve yet to be proved wrong.
Every article you’ve linked to makes vague references to “stimuli response”. Pupil dilation in response to bright light, or flinching in response to being poked with a sharp object indicates the presence of a central nervous system, not a will to live.
You can bold the word “fact” all you like, but that doesn’t mean you’re not wildly misinterpreting it.
I have no problem with them doing tests until the doctors are fully convinced that their diagnosis is the correct one, but could care less what the family wants in this case. Poor kid.
I think they’re doing it to appease the parents one last time. It ain’t gonna get any better. They need to see it again.
Quotes from various online news articles;
“The police said Haleigh’s aunt, Holli A. Strickland, who adopted her in 2001, and her husband, Jason D. Strickland, both of Westfield, were responsible for abuse that caused Haleigh’s injuries. Then, the day after Holli Strickland was released on bail, Ms. Strickland and her grandmother were found dead in an apparent murder-suicide, leaving Mr. Strickland alone facing criminal charges in Haleigh’s case.”
“He {Jason D. Strickland} is charged with assault and battery, accused of striking Haleigh once with an open hand and once with a plastic toy, and of not stopping Ms. Strickland when she committed more serious assaults, like hitting Haleigh with a baseball bat and kicking her existing bruises.”
“Mr. Strickland, who married Haleigh’s aunt just before she adopted Haleigh, never adopted the child himself, so the courts have given him no legal standing.”
“Haleigh came to live with Holli Strickland seven years ago, after her biological mother, Avrett, was deemed by the state to be an unfit parent”
“While the state has blocked Mr. Strickland’s involvement, it has consulted Haleigh’s birth mother, Allison Avrett, who lost custody of Haleigh when she was 4 because of “substantiated allegations of abuse,” said Denise Monteiro, a spokeswoman for the Department of Social Services. That abuse, according to Mr. Egan’s brief, involved assaults by Ms. Avrett’s boyfriend at the time”
“the desire of some of the girl’s relatives, including Haleigh’s maternal grandmother, Sandi Sudyka, and her biological mother, Allison Avrett, that she be allowed to die.”
And I think you need to read the articles for the first time. As just in these comments you have shown you did not read them, and if you did, you did not comprehend them. Everytime you say something about appeasing the parents you show you did not read the articles. Well either that or you are trying to justify your beliefs on PVS using this case as a general item rather then the individual case that it is.
Humor me Abbie Normal,
which parent, has what position, on allowing her to die?
Well, I read the part about the father wanting to keep her on life support. No, he doesn’t have any say over her medical care, but his lawyer (who sounds an awful lot like you) is still speaking on the father’s behalf.
Maybe you can show me where the doctors are saying they think this kid is going to make a meaningful recovery, over and above reflex breathing and pain response…two responses that many PVS patients experience, but virtually never move beyond.
When people start whining about “giving the poor kid a chance” and “she’s showing signs of recovery”, the doctors generally have to go back and re-run the tests to reiterate their position: learned medical opinion believes she’s still PVS. I don’t see where anyone thinks this is some big milestone for her. With the exception of YOU, of course.
This is where you lose any debate, your not understanding the position your debating about. And it is silly wishful thinking like yours that caused the whole T.S. debacle! You dont recover, ever, from PVS. And calling “supposed” means that you either think the doctors are liars, or incompetent; or you simply dont believe in PVS.
Grunts and twitches do not make a person. The doctors diagnosed her as being in a PVS. They didnt do this two days after she showed up at the hospital! She has been like this since September, it is time to let that poor girl go.
[
](http://www.masslive.com/news/topstories/index.ssf?/base/news-0/113472270726100.xml&coll=1)
So, lets all get this straight;
Biological father: Howard J. Wright,
voluntarily gave up parental rights,
wants life support removed.
Howard J. Wright, said “I think she’s been through a lot of stuff, and they should let her rest in peace finally,” @
Biological mother: Allison Avrett,
lost custody because of substantiated allegations of abuse, deemed by the state to be an unfit parent,
wants life support removed.
While the state has blocked Mr. Strickland’s {stepfather} involvement, it has consulted Haleigh’s birth mother,…Ms. Avrett said her preference for Haleigh was “to let her rest and shut the machine off.” @
Adoptive mother: Holli A. Strickland,
dead
Stepfather: Jason D. Strickland,
never adopted the child, and the courts have given him no legal standing, this week’s high court ruling said he has no say in her medical care,
believes the girl should be kept alive – but might be prosecuted for murder if she is not.
Haleigh’s mother and father want her suffering to end.
Abbie, you keep accusing people of not reading the articles you link to, but it’s very apparent that you are not reading the information others have linked to and described concerning PVS. No one is asking you to change your opinions, but it wouldn’t hurt to read up on some facts concerning PVS if you’re going to maintain a strong position.
Facts on PVS? Considering many doctors argue about the “state” and whether or not it is irreversible I think the problem is many of you take the one sides opinion as the way it is. But well thats all not really relevent as
This coming from the same people who wanted to kill her months ago. I get bile in my throat just thinking the person who saved her life this time, was the same person that put her in this condition. He may of been doing for his own well being but at least he delayed it long enough for her to show she may have more in her then they wanted anyone to know.
Yeah nice to see doctors are so right every time, you all would of sentenced this young child to another horrific abuse. Yeah thats the power, stand by your convictions, who cares who gets killed. On another note, make sure none of you ever have power of me living or dying as its clear you do not value life over your beliefs.
Oh beautiful to get your point across (that is WRONG) you use the famous big fonts. Point #1, once adopted the “biological parents” views are as worthless as yours, whether they use big fonts or not. She is a ward of the state. That is who is pushing (was) for removal.
Wow, what are the odds that a fucking vegetable wouldn’t be able to hold onto an object?
After the never ending bullshit we heard from Terri schiavo’s family, I would take this kind of uncorroborated third hand report from some purported “family friend” with about ten pounds of salt.
(And I would have to be incredibly suspicious of anyone who was friends with any of these animals that were raising this child anyway)
The problem is that the above never happened. A judge laughed at the idea, and even the Schindlers, who were looking for witnesses everywhere they could find them, avoided her like the plague. Here is what the judge said about the testimony:
Neither you nor I have the necessary knowledge to fairly question the experts who have actually been dealing with Haleigh on a daily basis. If they say she’s PVS, then I’m willing to believe she is. If they say they made a mistake, I’m willing to believe that they did. If a family friend of the biological mother says something that contradicts what we’re currently hearing from the experts, I’m not willing to stop believing the doctors. They are there. They have the expertise. You don’t. I don’t. John Gamelli doesn’t. Allison Avrett doesn’t. Even Denise Monteiro doesn’t know more than the doctors that are there.
The doctors are currently being quiet. When they have something to say, I’m sure they’ll let us know her condition. I don’t for a second believe that they’re going to determine that she’s recovering, and then pull the plug, so I’m not willing to get all outraged about this.
If the doctors made a mistake and misdiagnosed her, they’ll rectify it, and they can face whatever penalties doctors are supposed to face when making such a misdiagnosis. The girl will live.
If the doctors are correct that Haleigh is in a PVS, and remain convinced that they are correct after the recent testing, then they’ll be eventually removing the feeding tube. The girl will not live long.
If the doctors know that she’s not PVS, and are pretending that she’s in a PVS just so they can get their jollies, revenge on the father, or clear out the hospital room to make way for paying customers, then the prosecutor will be charging them with murder. The girl will likely not live, but the doctors will face murder charges.
Where’s the problem exactly?
Bolding mine
Wow this is not the pit so I will not insult you or your intelligence which I thought was way greater then mine. This was “Allison Avrett, Haleigh’s biological mother”
not the adoptee mother that did in fact kill herself when this abuse came to light ( the coma brought on by her and her husbands abuse)
See I knew it all along you where trying to compare it to the Schiavo case when they are different! But to you its all about arguing your “stand” the life of this child is meaningless. Either that or you get wood arguing your side when in fact you give a shit either way.
The problem exactly? If this little girls step father who put her in this condition would not of fought to keep her alive, none of this would of ever came to light. She would of been dead months ago. My biggest problem is a judge who seals medical records, a state not allowing other doctors to check her for the supposed PVS prior to these improvements, a people so willing to believe in what someone tells them they cannot look past there white coats to save a girls life.
I agree. What a tragedy it would have been for her to die sooner instead of later. Who knows - if this miracle recovery continues, in a few months she may be able to swallow on her own instead of needing her mouth cleaned out every hour. If that’s not quality of life, what is? It’d be a crime not to keep her alive to enjoy that.
Abbie, What part of ‘waiting to learn more’ is too much for you? One supposed family friend was not quite the confirmation I was thinking of when there are medical test results forthcoming. Must you take every opportunity to scream at people from the high ground you think you’ve discovered? To turn one of your questions around on you, is there some kind of rush?
Nobody wants it. Stay alive without a brain stem if you think that’ll make you and your family happier.
Much of this is so identical to the way a few people posted about Terri Schiavo - the comparisons to disabled relatives, the pleading about posters and the state wanting to kill a helpless girl, the insistence that doctors were untrustworthy and that everything was a sign of consciousness - that I was surprised to see you weren’t on the SDMB at that time. There’s one controversy I hoped we could go a year without duplicating.
This case highlights that the state and doctors do not know what is right everytime. My highground is the right place to be, go ahead and take the gutter, it doesn’t effect me it just makes me thank the Lord everyday that people with common sense and decency are in charge most of the time.
The state wanted to remove life support three weeks after this abuse tragedy. 3 weeks?!? Oh and the kicker? They would not allow any outside doctors who specialize in PVS victims! Neat huh?
I bet some of them would be just like you all, they could come to the SDMB and be given a honorary moderator badge for using this poor girl as a show that there state is not like Florida.
I will state again, one more time for the hard of reading. This is not Schivio, nothing similar about it.
And now, they are fighting for there collective asses, because they realize they may of tried to murder, yes murder an innocent child.
Tell me, Abbie…exactly what degree of recovery do you envision should they leave this kid on life support?
What length of time have you determined would be “long enough” for YOU to believe that she has reached her peak and is not going to come out of PVS and back amongst the living?
Tell me…in your opinion, is there a quality of life that is so low as to be considered “dead” for all intents and purposes? How do you come to that conclusion? What criteria would make it OK to pull the plug?
Please note this posted rule regarding Great Debates.
Then recognize that
is also not appropriate to this discussion. I realize that this is an emotional issue, for you, but when you start letting your emotions dictate your posts, you are better off doing it in the BBQ Pit.
If you would prefer to let it out, I would be happy to move this thread for you, but while it remains in GD, please stick to actual debating.
[ /Moderating ]