# Are people with autism hated and persecuted by society?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 14, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942 "2016-03-14T03:03:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/21 "2016-03-14T20:30:21Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> Wait, autistics are made of wood? :smack:
No, no, of course not. They’re made of ducks.
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/22 "2016-03-14T20:39:32Z")
Not to be a party pooper, but considering the subject of the thread, it would probably be best not to have humorous or witty comments. Autistic people can often be very literal and may not understand the humor in witty comments or puns. So someone on the spectrum reading this thread to gain insight into their own interactions may be confused or be offended by those types of comments.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/23 "2016-03-14T21:29:49Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> Autistic people can often be very literal and may not understand the humor in witty comments or puns.
Not implausible, but, I’ve never heard that before. Oh, it would be effin’ obvious WRT autistics at the “Rain Man” end of the spectrum, but would they be reading this anyway?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/24 "2016-03-14T22:20:47Z")
There was a time when I hated autistic people. That is to say, the first time I ever encountered the term was a 1983 episode of _Saint Elsewhere_, on which one of the doctors (Donald Westphall, played by Ed Flanders) has an autistic son named Tommy (Chad Allen).
Thing is, I had no idea what “autistic” meant (I was only 14), I thought they were saying the boy was _artistic_ as explanation for his destructive neurotic affect, and I remember getting annoyed that people would be making excuses for an “artistic” child who was smashing other people’s property for no reason.
I’m not sure at what point I became educated on the matter.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/25 "2016-03-14T22:27:47Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> For example, you may not immediately realize a kid is autistic. You may just think he’s quiet, shy, or really likes a subject like dinosaurs. But if you spend a lot of time around him, you realize he interacts with the world in a different way. He doesn’t just like dinosaurs, dinosaurs are the only thing he wants to talk about, is willing to talk about, and knows everything there is to know about dinosaurs. When talking to other kids, he doesn’t clue in that they don’t want to talk about dinosaurs. Obviously this can lead to many issues with the child and may make them retreat even more into their private world.
In many cases, the child gets evaluated because while adults can’t tell anything’s wrong, other kids can, and run away from the child before they say or do anything (see footnote), or make fun of them in public even if they have never seen them before in their lives. :eek: Even kids who share their obsessive interests may not wish to associate with them.
Footnote: This was what happened to my old neighbor, and he was only 3 years old. His older brother was definitely on the spectrum, but kids didn’t avoid him the way they did with the younger one. Go figure.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/26 "2016-03-14T22:28:52Z")
People with autism are harder to get along with. This doesn’t reflect any sort of persecution against those with autism; it reflects the nature of the condition itself. Autism is a condition that’s characterized by poor social skills.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/27 "2016-03-14T22:46:48Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> Re irritation in some cases I think sometimes people get the impression that other people who like to behave like obsessive jerks self diagnose as “Aspergers” to get a pass for their annoying behavior as something they can’t help and this diagnosis allows them get away with being obnoxious and making zero effort toward any social graces.
>
> It’s not fair but that’s what some people think about people who tout themselves as “Aspies”. There’s the disconnect of dealing with someone who seems rational and intelligent until it suits them not to be. lt’s hard for people to swallow that as something beyond a person’s control.
Is self-diagnosis something that occurs frequently? I’ve never heard of this before.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/28 "2016-03-14T22:51:55Z")
> [@protoboard](#):
>
> I notice that many people are turned off by me because I can be kind of strange and obsessive (I prefer saying passionate) about things that others do not care about or find important because they generally don’t involve sports, work or relationships. A lot of people on the Internet and in real life take issue with me for no apparent reason
That may be the reason why people take issue with you.
You want to talk about topics that you find interesting. But you don’t want to talk about topics other people find interesting. Other people may find your favorite topic just as boring as you find sports, work or relationships.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/29 "2016-03-14T22:55:10Z")
> [@protoboard](#):
>
> I’m Aspergers myself and I notice that many people are turned off by me because I can be kind of strange and obsessive (\*\*I prefer saying passionate) about things that others do not care about or find important \*\*because they generally don’t involve sports, work or relationships. A lot of people on the Internet and in real life take issue with me for **no apparent reason,**
But these two things might be connected.
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### Author:  [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/30 "2016-03-14T22:55:18Z")
I don’t think there’s hatred and persecution. I think there’s a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding about people on the Autism Spectrum. And some of the behaviours of people on the spectrum can be annoying to others.
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/31 "2016-03-14T22:55:55Z")
A friend of mine grew up with severe Autism in country Australia in the 1970’s. He was certainly discriminated against. He’s actually a semi famous writer now and has written an auto-biography. It’s an understatement to say Autism wasn’t understood then. Amongst other things a doctor told his mother to do things to him when he was having an attack which would be considered child abuse nowadays. He was also frequently beaten up and spat on by neighbourhood children.
His autobiography (and his other books) are well worth a read. Available on amazon here:
> **[Caiseal Mór: books, biography, latest update](https://www.amazon.com/stores/Caiseal%20M%C3%B3r/author/B001JOYLOC)**
>
> Follow Caiseal Mór and explore their bibliography from Amazon.com's Caiseal Mór Author Page.
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### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/32 "2016-03-14T23:06:27Z")
People with autism are stereotyped as having difficult personalities. Difficult personalities are not usually beloved.
And autism is a confusing condition. It’s not an intellectual disability, and yet it often co-occurs with intellectual disability. You can have autism and be functional in almost all observable ways. Or you can be profoundly handicapped. Many with autism embrace their neuro-atypicalness and do not conceive of themselves as disabled. While many others wish they weren’t autistic.
Seems to me that “Aspie” has become the new “tard”. I sometimes hear even mature people saying stuff like “he’s on the spectrum” in an attempt to be humorous. It has become a catch-all for every weirdo or social deviant. (Sometimes I secretly rejoice when someone makes a joke like this around me. It tells me that I’m successfully passing!)
I don’t know about hated or persecuted, but there’s definitely a stigma there. I’ve rejected with my own diagnosis not just because I’m agnostic about whether I fit the profile, but because I don’t like the image “Asperger’s” puts in my mind. I do not think I have a difficult personality. I do not think I am any more fragile or sensitive than anyone else. I am not humorless or tone deaf (though I have been told that I talk unusually loud). I am not like those pitiable individuals who live in their parents’ basements and require Mommy to do their laundry well into adulthood, despite hitting all the other milestones of adulthood. While I might have my own “uh durr why do hyooman always?” moments, I know how to (usually) keep that shit to myself. I am not a stereotype. “Aspie” conjures up nothing be annoying stereotypes to me.
I think for most people, “Aspie” is just that. A set of annoying stereotypes.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/33 "2016-03-14T23:08:48Z")
I think the issue is this: People naturally respond negatively to irritants.
If an autistic person is constantly exhibiting annoying behavior, expecting everyone to tolerate it graciously forever is expecting a saintly patience that 99% of people don’t have.
Can the autistic person help it? No. But the normal people can’t help feeling their annoyance either. In fact, the fact that the autistic person can’t help it may make the behavior even \*more \*exasperating.
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### Author:  [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/34 "2016-03-15T01:20:07Z")
OP - a lot of people here have said some good things. A lot of it will be more helpful to those who don’t know or understand autism than it may be to you.
You are aware that you have some issues with social skills. It may help you to find a local social skills group (Social Thinking offers a range of these for all ages) or other adult autism group in order to discuss your social interactions.
Being very passionate about a few topics and not recognizing that others do not share your interests or, even, would like to take turns talking, is one of the more common aspects of autism. A social skills group might help you address these situations in real life.
> [@China\_Guy](#):
>
> \
> To the OP, I think those more on the mild end of the spectrum get a tough time because you are perceived as “neurotypical”. In other words, not obviously on the spectrum. Thus when some see your passion (others might see as compulsiveness), maybe personal space issues (eye contact, stemming, rocking), being honest to a fault (blunt rather than diplomatic) but don’t make the connection with Austism/Aspergers. Shit, they may think you’re just an obnoxious dude from New Jersey that tells it like it is. 🙂
I think **China Guy** had a lot of good insights. I’ve clipped this one, in part because I know this happens to my son. Because he doesn’t “seem” disabled, people often expect him to behave differently. He happens to be very literal and definitely working on the social skills. If you tell him to “put down that box”, he will drop it where he stands rather than walking over to the table and setting it down. **OP** understanding for yourself where you differ from societal expectations can be helpful. You may not always be able to meet them. Many of them may seem silly to you (manners are a very odd social construct, overall), but understanding what people want or mean is an important goal.
> [@filmore](#):
>
> \
>
> **For example, you may not immediately realize a kid is autistic. You may just think he’s quiet, shy, or really likes a subject like dinosaurs. But if you spend a lot of time around him, you realize he interacts with the world in a different way. He doesn’t just like dinosaurs, dinosaurs are the only thing he wants to talk about, is willing to talk about, and knows everything there is to know about dinosaurs. When talking to other kids, he doesn’t clue in that they don’t want to talk about dinosaurs. Obviously this can lead to many issues with the child and may make them retreat even more into their private world.**
Yes, this is my son. If you would like to talk about Legos or Skylanders, he’s your kiddo. He doesn’t understand that other people want to talk about other things.
> [@filmore](#):
>
> Not to be a party pooper, but considering the subject of the thread, it would probably be best not to have humorous or witty comments. Autistic people can often be very literal and may not understand the humor in witty comments or puns. So someone on the spectrum reading this thread to gain insight into their own interactions may be confused or be offended by those types of comments.
Yes, autistic people can be shockingly literal to anyone who doesn’t live with it. I wouldn’t say not to make the jokes, but perhaps make it clear that they are jokes. I think that there is a lot of valuable information in this thread. I also enjoyed the Monty Python references, but they could be confusing.
Overall, I agree with others that “autism”, “the spectrum” and “Aspie” have become catch-alls, or even just excuses for neuro-typical folks to behave badly. **OP** this doesn’t mean that you are unlikable or that you can’t find common ground with others. You just need to realize that social skills are learned or can be learned, just like anything else. No one is born understanding everything there is to know about social interactions. It can take work and practice, but if it is important to you, you can improve your abilities to interact with others.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/35 "2016-03-15T01:38:01Z")
This may be a GQ question:
To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unaware \*of social norms, and
To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unwilling \*to comply with social norms, and
To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unable \*to comply with social norms?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/36 "2016-03-15T02:15:29Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> Is self-diagnosis something that occurs frequently? I’ve never heard of this before.
Yes its common. Go read some Tumblr blogs. “Self-DX” as they call it is extremely common with some people seeming to act as if collecting a series of mental diseases is some kind of pokemon game. While some of them are genuinely people with disorders, its also obvious that quite a few are doing it for attention.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/37 "2016-03-15T02:26:09Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> Is self-diagnosis something that occurs frequently? I’ve never heard of this before.
Yes many, many do and some even do it on behalf of their kids. It’s easy to get away with as the “spectrum” allows for an almost an infinitely wide variety of behaviors, and once you’ve tagged yourself as “aspie” you become part of a built in community and a behavioral paradigm which is hugely attractive to some people.
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### Author:  [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/38 "2016-03-15T04:19:21Z")
I’ve encountered self diagnosis and parents diagnosing their child. Thing is there is no literal “test.”
At least in my experience, the testing was to observe a set number of behaviors and record what fell out of the normal response. One I remember from my daughter. Tester (MD and autism specialist), blew up a balloon, held it out at arms length. A neurotypical child will look eagerly and expectantly from the eyes/face to the balloon and do this until the balloon is released. A child on the spectrum will just stare at the balloon. Different behavior and response. Do a hundred of these behavioral tests and you’ll get a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum, it’s pretty obvious. On the neurotypical side of the spectrum, not as much. And it’s not like 10 “autistic” like behaviors is normal but 11 puts you over to an autism diagnosis.
Before they put the Asperger’s on the autism spectrum, the two groups were simplistically divided between those that had more or less normal speech development (Aspergers) and those that were delayed, semi or non-verbal. If you think about it, the non-verbal child is going to be a lot more frustrated because they have limited communication skills, and this will affect their behavior, socialization, learning, world view and as host of other impacts.
All the people on the spectrum I know like to joke and laugh. Now, fair enough, they may not get there is a joke, or take it literally, but they have and enjoy humor (when they get it). By the same token, you can have someone on the spectrum that puns almost robotically. They pun more than anyone you’ll ever encounter, but don’t realize they are punning more than is socially acceptable, if that makes sense.
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### Author:  [@hkepotat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hkepotat)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/39 "2016-03-15T04:21:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> This may be a GQ question:
>
> To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unaware \*of social norms, and
>
> To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unwilling \*to comply with social norms, and
>
> To what extent is autistic behavior a case of being \*unable \*to comply with social norms?
Successfully passing as a NT means constantly being hyper aware of social norms, while reading the dynamic situation and responding appropriately. It is a lot of work. It takes years of study and practice. It is very frustrating with some spectacular failures that can make you wish to completely avoid social interactions. It requires patience, and the knowledge that one small slip up can completely destroy years of work in a relationship.
It being a spectrum, of course, I would imagine that many are unaware, some are aware but unable, and a few are aware, able, but not willing to put in the effort required. There are some who try their best to thrive in a world not made for them, but it is not an easy task, and those who are able to pass do it by acting like a completely different person for the benefit of those around them.
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### Author:  [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-with-autism-hated-and-persecuted-by-society/748942/40 "2016-03-15T05:08:10Z")
> [@hkepotat](#):
>
> Successfully passing as a NT means constantly being hyper aware of social norms, while reading the dynamic situation and responding appropriately. It is a lot of work. It takes years of study and practice. It is very frustrating with some spectacular failures that can make you wish to completely avoid social interactions. It requires patience, and the knowledge that one small slip up can completely destroy years of work in a relationship.
>
> It being a spectrum, of course, I would imagine that many are unaware, some are aware but unable, and a few are aware, able, but not willing to put in the effort required. There are some who try their best to thrive in a world not made for them, but it is not an easy task, and those who are able to pass do it by acting like a completely different person for the benefit of those around them.
Or you can join Microsoft, Google, Facebook or Apple and be part of the landscape. 🙂
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