# Are pets slaves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388 "2016-07-20T03:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/261 "2016-07-26T18:53:53Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > To me the notion seems off, like how do you determine what is a mockery of nature? Symbiosis is common in nature … consider the lichen. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/262 "2016-07-26T18:57:51Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > To me the notion seems off, like how do you determine what is a mockery of nature? You’re the one who used the term. What did you mean by it? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/263 "2016-07-26T19:07:30Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But isn’t it cruel to leave them at home alone? They miss people terribly. As the Annoying Yappy Dog I once rescued and gave to my sister has regrettably perished, there is no dog on the planet I give a fuck about. They can all join AYD in doggy heaven for all I care. Cats don’t care about being home alone. My children don’t like it when I go to work. Am I cruel to go to work? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/264 "2016-07-26T20:20:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > To me the notion seems off, like how do you determine what is a mockery of nature? What you need to be considering is what is called mutualism: > **[Mutualism (biology)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology)#Humans)** > > Mutualism describes the ecological interaction between two or more species where each species has a net benefit. Mutualism is a common type of ecological interaction. Prominent examples are: > Mutualism can be contrasted with interspecific competition, in which each species experiences reduced fitness, and exploitation, and with parasitism, in which one species benefits at the expense of the other. However, mutualism may evolve from interactions that began with imbalanced benefits, such as paras... “One researcher has proposed that the key advantage Homo sapiens had over Neanderthals in competing over similar habitats was the former’s mutualism with dogs.[18]”. We can’t mock nature because WE ARE nature. Humans and dogs were living together and humans were choosing the most friendly offspring to help breed far before we had any concept of natural / un-natural. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/265 "2016-07-26T20:27:46Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > What you need to be considering is what is called mutualism: > [Mutualism (biology) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology)#Humans) > > “One researcher has proposed that the key advantage Homo sapiens had over Neanderthals in competing over similar habitats was the former’s mutualism with dogs.[18]”. We can’t mock nature because WE ARE nature. Humans and dogs were living together and humans were choosing the most friendly offspring to help breed far before we had any concept of natural / un-natural. Even then the “crime against nature” seems like a blatant appeal to nature fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/266 "2016-07-26T21:33:34Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Even then the “crime against nature” seems like a blatant appeal to nature fallacy. You keep throwing out words without explaining what you mean. What the heck are you trying to say? By definition, it’s not unnatural unless you stretch the definition of unnatural until it’s meaningless. We like dogs. Dogs like us. We evolved that way together. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/267 "2016-07-26T21:33:54Z")
Then why did you use that line of argument? Even if it WERE a “mockery of nature” or whatever, that presumes all things natural are good. Earthquakes are natural. Cancer is natural. Nature isn’t good or bad – it is just is. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/268 "2016-07-26T21:47:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then why did you use that line of argument? > > Even if it WERE a “mockery of nature” or whatever, that presumes all things natural are good. Earthquakes are natural. Cancer is natural. > > Nature isn’t good or bad – it is just is. It wa something I heard used before, but now I realize doesn’t carry much weight ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/269 "2016-07-26T22:09:23Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It wa something I heard used before, but now I realize doesn’t carry much weight Why are you using argument that you yourself realize are c? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/270 "2016-07-26T23:35:38Z")
We’re fighting ignorance here … and thank you **coremelt** for the correction … mutualism was the word I was looking for. Dogs would survive in the wild, and they would live on the very edge of survival. In our homes they are always fed, protected and kept away from predators. They live a life of luxury compared to their wolf ancestors. This is different for a human slave, unlike the dog, the freed slave would live as an equal among other humans. If slaves can, then they _must_ be allowed to. Across these mountains, an outdoor cat quickly becomes coyote food … we do cats a great service by confining them indoors. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/271 "2016-07-27T00:47:39Z")
True I guess. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/272 "2016-07-27T00:57:01Z")
> [@katpohl](#): > > \… > So in answer to the query ‘are pets slaves’ , either it is a trick question or the OP has some pretty confused friends with strange ideas on the topic of pets /slavery . “pretty confused” is putting it lightly if he thinks Manson is The Best Guy Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/273 "2016-07-27T01:08:28Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > “pretty confused” is putting it lightly if he thinks Manson is The Best Guy Ever. I never thought Manson was the bet guy ever, that’s that authors view. He seems rather messed up to be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised that he found Manson inspiring. [https://forbiddentruthblog.com/about-me/comment-page-1/#comment-10692](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/about-me/comment-page-1/#comment-10692) I know Manson was just a manipulative psychopath who did whatever it took to get what he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/274 "2016-07-27T01:10:38Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I never thought Manson was the bet guy ever, that’s that authors view. He seems rather messed up to be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised that he found Manson inspiring. > > [https://forbiddentruthblog.com/about-me/comment-page-1/#comment-10692](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/about-me/comment-page-1/#comment-10692) > > I know Manson was just a manipulative psychopath who did whatever it took to get what he wanted. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that YOU thought Manson was cool…I was talking about the guy in that link. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/275 "2016-07-27T03:56:12Z")
Suppose pets \*\*\*are \*\*\*slaves. What’s bad or wrong about that? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/276 "2016-07-27T04:25:15Z")
I guess since the fact that humans were treated badly as slaves the notion is still fresh. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/277 "2016-07-27T11:02:31Z")
But since we don’t treat pets badly in most cases, your point is rather moot. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/278 "2016-07-27T13:48:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But since we don’t treat pets badly in most cases, your point is rather moot. Or the issue actually is how some people treat pets, rather than some ‘daring’ new concept that they are ‘slaves’ and there’s something inherently wrong with that. Again that’s my impression of this whole debate. It’s silly insofar as arguing conceptually whether pets are slaves. OTOH the issue of treatment of animals really isn’t moot. Most people treat pets well, many don’t, nor even really treat dogs\* as pets. \*mistreatment of cats happens too obviously, but they are more likely to left to their own devices outside if not really treated like pets, and are more viable animals without human support. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/279 "2016-07-27T14:30:49Z")
OP you should get rid of your dogs. Let them loose. Take them to the humane society and let someone else adopt them. I don’t have any pets. I own several animals that work for me at my ranch. If you equate that with slavery so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/280 "2016-07-27T16:34:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > OP you should get rid of your dogs. Let them loose. Take them to the humane society and let someone else adopt them. > > I don’t have any pets. I own several animals that work for me at my ranch. If you equate that with slavery so be it. I don’t. Also letting them lose is the same as killing them myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=15)