# Are pets slaves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388 "2016-07-20T03:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/101 "2016-07-20T22:50:48Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Since I know about the rule regarding cat photos, here is one of Andy performing one of his duties, that of “pillow tester”. Poor fellow sure looks abused. > > [http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/DSC00823.jpg.html](http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/DSC00823.jpg.html) Don’t sell him short - he’s also testing the box. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/102 "2016-07-20T22:55:40Z")
Dude, one of your cites is from a guy who describes [Charles Manson](http://forbiddentruth.8k.com/manson_nietzsche.html) as: > [@](#): > > … a tortured victim-creation of american society, he is the most brilliant Seer of Forbidden Truth to have ever lived within american society, during the 20th century, he is the #1 political prisoner currently alive in america, and he deserves to be the supreme leader of america. Yes folks, all four of the above revelations are 100% accurate, and represent Forbidden Truth in it’s purest sense. Of course I am well aware that there is no possibility of you insane creatures coming to your senses and granting Seer Charles, finally, after a lifetime of undeserved torture, the honor, the empowerment, the omnipotence that he deserves. _Charles fucking Manson_. One of the most notorious serial killers of the 20th century. I wouldn’t consider this guy a trustworthy source of what’s humane and compassionate. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > I think you guys are missing the point of the reply I had in my post, that ultimately the animals are breed with traits we want and can’t surivive on their own. That everything they have is ultimately based on what we decide to give them. They eat what we allow them and go out when we say so. Their far is pretty much in our hands. How is that not slavery? We don’t miss the point. We simply disagree. Not one of those those things you describe is soly for the sake of our amusement or done out of malice. Think of pets more as perpetual children. Not as in “my animals are a child subsitute” way, but as in the controlling what they do because it’s for their own good. If I didn’t control what my cats eat, they’d eat things that made them sick. I don’t allow them to go outside because I don’t want them being hit by a car, attacked by another animal or some asshole who likes hurting animals. (My mother lost cats when she kid to all three, and had a cat injured after being hit with a BB-gun.) My cats are spayed because spaying is healthier for them in the long run, and going into heat is not fun for cats. I take them to the vet to get them their shots to keep them free from disease and to help them get medicine when they get sick. That’s your idea of slavery? > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > The real shame about this is that people waste time and energy expounding and protesting on this animal slavery nonsense when there is still plain old HUMAN slavery alive and well and still going on in the world. I find it amusing that this is being posted from someone with the name “Two Many Cats”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/103 "2016-07-20T23:03:17Z")
This conversation reminds me very much of a friend who will often say something extremely stupid, whether she knows it is or not, then enjoys the attention of people as they try to explain why what she said was stupid. She isn’t interested in what is being said and responds by whatever it is she thinks will keep the “conversation” going. Talk about slavery. Being suckered into one of those conversations is torturous. I’ve been suckered into this exact topic by my friend before, even though she pines for a day when she can afford a house so she can have a pure bred dog. Oh wait, she’s already decided to forgo the house and just get a great big dog in a small apartment anyway. Completely undermining her own “points” re: pet slavery. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/104 "2016-07-20T23:04:11Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I fail to see the point of that statement. **I meant inanimate objects can’t be slaves.** Also what about how pets are kept confined to the house the whole time? Then our cats are not slaves. 😃 Our cats do not want to go outside. They stay far from the door when it’s open. Our newest cat I found as a stray. She willingly climbed in my lap and rode home on the handcycle. She wants to be inside. It’s comfy and there are many treats. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/105 "2016-07-20T23:08:47Z")
Evidently, according to some of the posters, a pet owner who takes the family cat out and abandons it along the road somewhere is to be lauded for “freeing the slaves”. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/106 "2016-07-20T23:12:07Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I think you guys are missing the point of the reply I had in my post, that ultimately the animals are breed with traits we want and can’t surivive on their own. That everything they have is ultimately based on what we decide to give them. They eat what we allow them and go out when we say so. Their far is pretty much in our hands. How is that not slavery? A[2013 study](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130514-dogs-domestication-humans-genome-science/) suggests that humans and dogs may have evolved together into what we know today , rather than simply humans manipulating dog breeds. Dogs are not domesticated wolves - the dog/wolf split may have happened as much as 120,000 years ago. So canines thata became dogs are not just tame wolves - and likely never were. So, if humans and dogs evolved together, can a case be made that pets should throw off the shackles of “slavery” and become free? If pet ownership is slavery, how do you propose the inherently brutal system be “fixed”? ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/107 "2016-07-20T23:13:43Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But they don’t have desires of their own or the brain functions that animals do. Ok, so your definition of a slave would be someone who is property but has desires (possibly including the desire to not be property). Is that it? And you claim that animals do have desires. But how do you know that what you call desires is more than simple instinct? I do not think it is. That is why I keep coming back to the plant comparison. Even they have instincts. Plants and animals are not fundamentally different from each other. Vertebrate animals generally are more complex organisms than plants are, but then again humans are yet again a lot more complex. The reason you think that animals should have rights such as personal freedom is that you anthropomorphize them. You see them as persons. But think about it - if they \*were \*persons, would that not mean that they should be entitled to \*all \*human rights? Would you for example grant them the right to own property? If the answer to that is no, ask yourself why not. Sure, animals do not understand the concept of property, but they do not understand the concept of freedom either. So that cannot be it. What is? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/108 "2016-07-20T23:27:27Z")
How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? Also what about keeping them confined in the house against their will? I think slavery is keeping something against its will. I mean we breed dogs with characteristics that make them unable to surivive without us, isn’t that a form of enslavement. That they need us to live? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/109 "2016-07-20T23:35:42Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I mean we breed dogs with characteristics that make them unable to surivive without us, isn’t that a form of enslavement. That they need us to live? No it is not. Dogs can survive without us. How many times do we have to point out that your argument is not logical. Babies are unable to survive without parents but they are not enslaved. The elderly and infirmed are unable to survive without other humans but they are not enslaved. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/110 "2016-07-20T23:49:42Z")
I would gladly enter into slavery for a master who would treat me as well as I treat our dogs. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/111 "2016-07-20T23:52:03Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? Also what about keeping them confined in the house against their will? I think slavery is keeping something against its will. I mean we breed dogs with characteristics that make them unable to surivive without us, isn’t that a form of enslavement. That they need us to live? How do we know you are not a bot just mindlessly repeating the same points even though there are already dozens of posts refuting those points? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/112 "2016-07-20T23:54:14Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > How do we know you are not a bot just mindlessly repeating the same points even though there are already dozens of posts refuting those points? Mecho-American. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/113 "2016-07-21T00:15:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? Also what about keeping them confined in the house against their will? I think slavery is keeping something against its will. I mean we breed dogs with characteristics that make them unable to surivive without us, isn’t that a form of enslavement. That they need us to live? You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/114 "2016-07-21T00:30:19Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > How do we know you are not a bot just mindlessly repeating the same points even though there are already dozens of posts refuting those points? You haven’t refuted anything, just told personal accounts. You haven’t answers the point about the living condition of being limited to the house, and you just keep adjusting what slavery means to answer it. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/115 "2016-07-21T00:42:37Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > You haven’t refuted anything, just told personal accounts. You haven’t answers the point about the living condition of being limited to the house, and you just keep adjusting what slavery means to answer it. I haven’t because so many others have done a wonderful job doing it already. I couldn’t even make myself click your links. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/116 "2016-07-21T00:46:58Z")
Another National Geographic article that may be of interest: > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. Perhaps we should be complaining of our enslavement by our doggy overlords? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/117 "2016-07-21T00:55:39Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > You haven’t refuted anything, just told personal accounts. You haven’t answers the point about the living condition of being limited to the house, and you just keep adjusting what slavery means to answer it. Are you ever going to address my question from the last page? Here’s a repeat: Dogs, cats, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, pigs, snakes, and other non-human animals commonly kept as pets are not persons, because they are not human. If you believe the penumbra of personhood should be extended to non-human animal, then you must also believe that a dog that kills a rat has committed murder and should be prosecuted. Do you? If not, why not? Those are not rhetorical questions. Please answer them. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/118 "2016-07-21T01:16:03Z")
heh only thing my rotund tub of elderly cat desires in her old age is the knowledge of how to defeat that most evil human invention ever … The pull top can lid…if she ever does gods help the cat food industry … ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/119 "2016-07-21T01:19:46Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Another National Geographic article that may be of interest: > > [National Geographic](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/03/130302-dog-domestic-evolution-science-wolf-wolves-human/) > > Perhaps we should be complaining of our enslavement by our doggy overlords? That’s actually pretty interesting. Dogs choosing us for surivival ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/120 "2016-07-21T01:21:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are you ever going to address my question from the last page? Here’s a repeat: > > Dogs, cats, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, pigs, snakes, and other non-human animals commonly kept as pets are not persons, because they are not human. > > If you believe the penumbra of personhood should be extended to non-human animal, then you must also believe that a dog that kills a rat has committed murder and should be prosecuted. Do you? If not, why not? > > Those are not rhetorical questions. Please answer them. I don’t think it should be extended because it would quite frankly never work out. I doubt dogs do things out of malice or anything. It’s like trying to deny nature from happening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=7)