# Are pets slaves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388 "2016-07-20T03:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/121 "2016-07-21T01:35:38Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t think it should be extended because it would quite frankly never work out. I doubt dogs do things out of malice or anything. It’s like trying to deny nature from happening. If dogs lack the capacity to murder, what makes you think they have the mental wherewithal to yearn for freedom? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/122 "2016-07-21T01:38:29Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I don’t think it should be extended because it would quite frankly never work out. I doubt dogs do things out of malice or anything. It’s like trying to deny nature from happening. You think treating pet ownership as slavery is going to “work out” any better? They’re equally ridiculous and impractical concerns. And, hell, why can’t we just say “Owning animals is in our nature,” and stop worrying about it? If the excuse works for dogs kill rabbits, why can’t it work for us owning dogs? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/123 "2016-07-21T01:43:07Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? Also what about keeping them confined in the house against their will? I think slavery is keeping something against its will. I mean we breed dogs with characteristics that make them unable to surivive without us, isn’t that a form of enslavement. That they need us to live? Dogs are pack animals … is the beta wolf slave to the alpha wolf? Humans are slaves … the beasts of the fields are to be managed, husbandry if you like. I’m not sure where you think you’re drawing the line, but if it’s **life** in all it’s forms, when you would have to call the simple wheat plant a slave … and that doesn’t make sense to most people. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/124 "2016-07-21T02:02:48Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? The same way we know they don’t understand the concept of calculus, or indeed basic arithmetic: they show no evidenece of the linguistic or intellectual capacity. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/125 "2016-07-21T02:05:21Z")
Machinaforce, do you actually care about the welfare of animals or is this just an intellectual exercise for you? Because if you care about the welfare of animals then campaigning against battery hens and the conditions they keep pigs in when raising them for pork will be slightly more productive I suggest. Or go volunteer at a local shelter, your conception of shelters is quite flawed. And if it’s just an intellectual exercise then you’re doing a piss poor job since you just keep repeating “but we have power over them so they’re slaves”, which has been refuted many times. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/126 "2016-07-21T03:05:06Z")
I want to do right by my dogs because I love them, but when I hear people put it like that it gets my heart and head in knots about what’s the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/127 "2016-07-21T03:06:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > If dogs lack the capacity to murder, what makes you think they have the mental wherewithal to yearn for freedom? I mean they do kill, but I don’t know if they yearn for freedom, I’m not a dog. But if there are reports of dogs returning home then it makes you wonder if they do have freedom. Whether or not they are slaves seems to be dependent on how you define slavery. If it’s a matter of consent then it s not slavery since they can’t give or withdraw consent ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/128 "2016-07-21T03:14:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I want to do right by my dogs because I love them, but when I hear people put it like that it gets my heart and head in knots about what’s the right thing to do. The person who “put it like that” thinks that the only thing standing between Charles Manson and literal omnipotence is a successful parole hearing. Don’t listen to people like that. They don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/129 "2016-07-21T03:40:57Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I want to do right by my dogs because I love them, but when I hear people put it like that it gets my heart and head in knots about what’s the right thing to do. So if you put your dogs out on the street would they run away or would they play outside for a while then come back to the house and whine to get back in? I think there is a bunch of ways you can test if your dogs want to stay with you or not. I think animals absolutely can give consent in non verbal ways. I came back home from the shops this morning and my cat who had been out all night came sprinting to the door to be let in rubbing against my legs. Then I opened the door and he walked in on his own. Thats a pretty clear sign of consent that he wants to be inside. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/130 "2016-07-21T04:03:56Z")
I guess I could test it to ease my conscience. It’s just when I hear animal rights folk use the word slave it doesn’t feel very good. But on the other hand they are dogs so I don’t know how they see it. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/131 "2016-07-21T04:11:47Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I guess I could test it to ease my conscience. It’s just when I hear animal rights folk use the word slave it doesn’t feel very good. But on the other hand they are dogs so I don’t know how they see it. There are Vegans who think it’s acceptable to keep pets (but not to drink milk or eat eggs). Not sure why you are so concerned about what a tiny fringe percentage thinks. They’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/132 "2016-07-21T04:26:06Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > There are Vegans who think it’s acceptable to keep pets (but not to drink milk or eat eggs). Not sure why you are so concerned about what a tiny fringe percentage thinks. They’re wrong. Vegans who keep pets? That seems odd. Then again, that guy in the post I made has two pets ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/133 "2016-07-21T04:32:53Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Vegans who keep pets? That seems odd. Then again, that guy in the post I made has two pets Why is it odd? I recently recounted the story of my vegan friends who fed their cat meat because of necessary nutrients not found in vegetarian diets. They have the utmost respect for all animals, which is why they offer their cat the opportunity to live a long healthy life in a safe environment among people who love it. Should they have taken that cat out to the woods to fend for itself, become infested with ticks and fleas, and probably eaten by coyote if it didn’t freeze or starve to death first? They did put a bell collar on the cat so that it would’t easily kill other animals. Were they enslaving that cat by denying it’s right to murder other animals? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/134 "2016-07-21T04:34:54Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Vegans who keep pets? That seems odd. Then again, that guy in the post I made has two pets My oldest friend is a vegan who keeps pets and is okay with hunting (that is, she thinks hunters who eat whatever they kill are morally superior to meat-eaters who get all their food from the grocery store). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/135 "2016-07-21T04:42:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > How do we know they don’t understand the concept of freedom? Also what about keeping them confined in the house against their will? **I think slavery is keeping something against its will.** Gee, I guess that makes my car a slave. After all, it only goes where I tell it to go, and when I’m not using it, it’s locked into the garage. How cruel! I should just set it free and send it careening down the street. Surely it understands the concept of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/136 "2016-07-21T04:52:22Z")
Just found this response, and I can’t really argue with it to be honest: Their lives are restricted to human homes where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to. Because domesticated animals retain many of their basic instincts and drives but are not able to survive on their own in the wild, dogs, cats, or birds, whose strongest desire is to be free, must be confined to a house, yard, or cage for their own safety . . . Even in “good” homes, cats must relieve themselves in dirty litterboxes and often have their digits removed by “declawing,” and dogs often have to drink water that has sat around for days, are hurried along on their walks, and are yelled at to get off the furniture or be quiet. It seems so harsh when they put it that way to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/137 "2016-07-21T04:56:20Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > …whose strongest desire is to be free, … How do “they” know that is the pets’ strongest desire? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/138 "2016-07-21T05:03:15Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > How do “they” know that is the pets’ strongest desire? I would assume from the behavior of trying to escape. It also makes points about their walks, water, everything. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/139 "2016-07-21T05:05:27Z")
Are they really trying to escape? Or just want to go investigate something over there somewhere? Somewhere across that busy street. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388/140 "2016-07-21T05:24:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I would assume from the behavior of trying to escape. It also makes points about their walks, water, everything. This has already been refuted. Have you actually ever observed a well treated pet trying to escape into the wilderness? Do your dogs wait for a chance to disappear over the horizon as soon as you open the front door? Strangely my cat comes back to me after I let him out, seems his love of a soft place to sleep, food and affection is stronger than any desire to be free. My cat is not declawed, he has clean water and a clean litter box. Every point they make is false, or a straw man argument. If you don’t want your dogs anymore then please find a good home for them and don’t release them, but you’re not going to convince anyone else with these obviously false arguments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pets-slaves/760388.md?page=8)