# Are pilots supposed to look both ways before crossing the runway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828 "2025-02-26T13:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/21 "2025-02-27T22:22:46Z")
> [@Dereknocue67](#): > > Should a pilot look both ways? Sure. However, consider their mindset. While driving a vehicle on a city street, when the light turns from red to green, we’re given clearance to proceed. Do we look both ways before proceeding or step on the gas? Sometimes we look and sometimes we don’t. I believe it depends on the circumstances. I nearly always do, because the “drivers” in my area are largely incompetent idiots who think a yellow light a block away means “speed up”, and running red lights is very common here. The downtown area is also such a maze of streets switching between one-way and two-way on whim that it’s not unusual for someone to get horribly confused and end up driving the wrong way for that section of street. > [@DCnDC](#): > > I, for one, always look if i’m up front. I see way too many red lights get run regularly around here to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Same. Not just red light runners but idiots driving in idiotic ways. QFT, both of you. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/22 "2025-02-27T22:40:47Z")
> [@Dereknocue67](#): > > While driving a vehicle on a city street, when the light turns from red to green, we’re given clearance to proceed. Do we look both ways before proceeding or step on the gas? Sometimes we look and sometimes we don’t. I believe it depends on the circumstances. Interesting question that I had to think about a bit, because much of driving behaviour is subconscious. For me, I think the answer is that there are two different circumstances. Case #1 is if I’m the first car at the intersection when the light turns green. In that case I **always** quickly look both ways for any random idiot who may have been trying to rush through the yellow light at supersonic speeds. Case #2 is when the light is already green and traffic is flowing. In that case I don’t explicitly look, but just have what I can only describe as enhanced situational awareness where my peripheral vision is more alert than usual as I approach the intersection. This seems similar to what the Southwest pilots were doing – cleared to land, everything normal, but WTF is this moving object I just caught out of the corner of my eye that isn’t supposed to be there? They reacted before the actual runway incursion when a closer look made it clear that this bizjet just wasn’t going to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/23 "2025-02-27T22:46:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This seems similar to what the Southwest pilots were doing – cleared to land, everything normal, but WTF is this moving object I just caught out of the corner of my eye that isn’t supposed to be there? They reacted before the actual runway incursion when a closer look made it clear that this bizjet just wasn’t going to stop. I’ll mention that I’ve been given this scenario in the simulator a number of times. Usually it’s while performing an instrument procedure that’s intended (from the instructor’s POV) to end in a missed approach, they’ll program up a jet crossing the runway or sitting on the threshold waiting to take off. It’s very effective - you’ve been focusing on the instrument approach and suddenly there’s a plane right where you’re trying to land. You don’t expect that in the simulator. Or at least, I wasn’t the first time. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/24 "2025-02-27T22:51:45Z")
One of the issues with individuals is that they are generally not aware of the errors of omission that they make. Everyone who thinks they _always_ look both ways when first at a red light that turns green is wrong. They look, except on the occasions they don’t and didn’t notice that they didn’t. _Nothing_ in human task performance is 100%. Habits are not foolproof. A lot of the motivation for two pilots and a lot of the motivation for the ritualistic canned conversation between them is about ensuring that the inevitable errors of omission are only going to proceed to fruition after both pilots forget the same thing at the same time, _and_ both fail to notice the other’s forgetting. That _still_ doesn’t get the error rate to zero. But when applied diligently in a standardized fashion it drops the error rate to a small fraction of what it would otherwise be. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/25 "2025-02-27T23:15:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Everyone who thinks they _always_ look both ways when first at a red light that turns green is wrong. They look, except on the occasions they don’t and didn’t notice that they didn’t. _Nothing_ in human task performance is 100%. Habits are not foolproof. You’re absolutely right. I described what I almost always do, but there have been thoughtless exceptions. The absolute worst offender is described by three words: In A Hurry (IAH), possibly the cause of more accidents than any other single factor. I’m talking about car accidents but as you well know it also applies to aviation (e.g.- Tenerife) and even to spacecraft (e.g.- Challenger). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/26 "2025-02-27T23:49:01Z")
Sorry no. Not only do I always look both ways as the 1st person at a light I will slow down and look going through a blind intersection if nobody is in front of me already moving through the intersection. I’ve avoided (2) side-impact crashes in the last 15 years. Ironically 1 of them was the local police. Not looking left/right is the same for me as not flaring when landing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/27 "2025-02-28T01:35:10Z")
Not to imply that I didn’t make mistakes as a pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/28 "2025-02-28T01:38:28Z")
What’s the biggest one you feel comfortable talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/29 "2025-02-28T02:20:37Z")
Tuning in the wrong frequency on the night of 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/30 "2025-02-28T10:58:49Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > One of the issues with individuals is that they are generally not aware of the errors of omission that they make. > > Everyone who thinks they _always_ look both ways when first at a red light that turns green is wrong. They look, except on the occasions they don’t and didn’t notice that they didn’t. _Nothing_ in human task performance is 100%. Habits are not foolproof. There’s no human endeavor that’s foolproof, but adopting a habit (even an imperfect one) of looking before driving through intersections adds one more low-cost layer to the **[swiss cheese model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model)**. To make the visual check more reliable, pointing and calling is a technique that’s in use in some industries: > **[Pointing and calling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling)** > > Pointing and calling is a method in occupational safety for avoiding mistakes by pointing at important indicators and verbally calling out their status. It is especially common on Japanese railways, where it is referred to as shisa kanko (指差喚呼), shisa kakunin kanko (指差確認喚呼) or yubisashi koshō (指差呼称); in Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese railways, where it is called 指差呼唤; 指差確認 (zhǐchā hūhuàn); and in Indonesian railways, where it is known as tunjuk-sebut. Gesturing at and verbalizing these indicators... I’m kind of surprised to learn that it hasn’t been formally adopted in commercial aviation, especially for navigating across busy airfields. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/31 "2025-02-28T13:17:29Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > nearly always do, because the “drivers” in my area are largely incompetent idiots who think a yellow light a block away means “speed up” Just aspiring Olympic athletes ‘going for the gold’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/32 "2025-02-28T16:06:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Case #1 is if I’m the first car at the intersection when the light turns green. In that case I **always** quickly look both ways for any random idiot who may have been trying to rush through the yellow light at supersonic speeds.   It seems to me that safety could be greatly improved by adding a delay of a few seconds from the time one light turns red to when the next light turns green.   It seems to me that there’s always someone speeding into the intersection on an _“orange”_ light, that you’d hit if you proceed immediately when your light turns green.  I don’t really blame that other drive; I blame the traffic light system for not allowing a reasonable margin for the last car to enter before another light turned red, to clear the intersection, before the light turns green for someone coming in from another direction. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/33 "2025-02-28T16:12:04Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > I blame the traffic light system for not allowing a reasonable margin for the last car to enter before another light turned red, to clear the intersection, before the light turns green for someone coming in from another direction. - Which encourages further red light running. There will be plenty who will use the gap to push their entry into the intersection right up to the green in the other direction just like they’re doing now. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/34 "2025-02-28T16:19:04Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > It seems to me that safety could be greatly improved by adding a delay of a few seconds from the time one light turns red to when the next light turns green. > > It seems to me that there’s always someone speeding into the intersection on an _“orange”_ light, that you’d hit if you proceed immediately when your light turns green. I don’t really blame that other drive; I blame the traffic light system for not allowing a reasonable margin for the last car to enter before another light turned red, to clear the intersection, before the light turns green for someone coming in from another direction. Those delays are already commonly implemented…and red-light runners are aware of these delays and routinely blast through intersections long after the light has turned red. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/35 "2025-02-28T16:22:22Z")
Yes, but a commercial airline drops out of the sky and lands at speeds up to 160 MPH, so looking both ways won’t help if his plane is rolling slowly across the runway as it comes into his field of vision. His clearance is dependent upon the controller to whom he should be listening very attentively. I’m a big fan of the Smithsonian channel’s “Air Disasters” and, after having viewed all of the 100-something episodes, I’m very familiar with the various things that can go wrong. In cases involving runway incursions, the causes I saw were reduced nighttime vision with poor lighting, fog, severe rain, poor markings, etc. Not one of the disasters fitting this category were in broad daylight on a clear day. This is a case of severe pilot error. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/36 "2025-02-28T17:53:21Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Those delays are already commonly implemented…and red-light runners are aware of these delays and routinely blast through intersections long after the light has turned red. It’s actually mostly unconscious awareness of the delay. When they make such changes, safety is improved, but it’s usually only for a short time. After a while, accident rates go back to where they were before. The same thing happened when they required cars to have a third brake light. Highways became safer because drivers could often see that the car two in front of them was slowing. But before long, drivers were leaving less space between them and the car in front, so the accident rate went right back up to what it was before. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/37 "2025-02-28T21:15:21Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Case #1 is if I’m the first car at the intersection when the light turns green. In that case I **always** quickly look both ways for any random idiot who may have been trying to rush through the yellow light at supersonic speeds. > > It seems to me that safety could be greatly improved by adding a delay of a few seconds from the time one light turns red to when the next light turns green. That’s exactly how it works. The delay is effective in the case of drivers who inadvertently drive through too late on a yellow light, or perhaps because of weather conditions can’t stop in time. It does absolutely nothing to protect against idiots who just don’t want to stop. The only protections there, besides police patrols, are (a) red light cameras and warning signs, and (b) the alertness of other drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/38 "2025-02-28T22:15:08Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Those delays are already commonly implemented…and red-light runners are aware of these delays and routinely blast through intersections long after the light has turned red.   Here in Sacramento, at least, and as far as I have any memory of ever seeing, the one light turns green at the same moment another turns red. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Which encourages further red light running. There will be plenty who will use the gap to push their entry into the intersection right up to the green in the other direction just like they’re doing now.   I don’t know how much practical difference it would make, but there certainly is a legal difference between someone going into an intersection while the light is yellow, and going in once it is solidly red. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/39 "2025-02-28T22:52:45Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > Here in Sacramento, at least, and as far as I have any memory of ever seeing, the one light turns green at the same moment another turns red. If so, then consider this: > [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > there certainly is a legal difference between someone going into an intersection while the light is yellow, and going in once it is solidly red. Which is why red light cameras work that way. I’ve never seen a traffic light system where there isn’t a delay before one side turns green after the other side turns red. If there wasn’t a delay, you could have two cars moving across from each other in the intersection, both of them technically having entered the intersection legally. A police officer **might** , as a matter of judgment, write a traffic citation to someone running a yellow light who clearly had been able to stop, but this is a murkier area that depends on the laws of the specific jurisdiction and is harder to prove. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828/40 "2025-02-28T23:13:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’ve never seen a traffic light system where there isn’t a delay before one side turns green after the other side turns red. If there wasn’t a delay, you could have two cars moving across from each other in the intersection, both of them technically having entered the intersection legally.   I know that I have watched some of the lights change here in Sacramento, and saw one light turn green at the same moment that the other light turned red.  No delay.  I have seen this and taken notice of it, multiple times.   If I have ever seen a light that had that delay, I didn’t take notice of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pilots-supposed-to-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-runway/1014828.md?page=3)