# Are police officers always "on duty"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333 "2006-02-07T02:34:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/21 "2006-02-07T19:09:20Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Before Hernandez, the last friendly-fire incident in NYC was 1994. I had the distinction of being on the train platform, very near the car where that occured. Didn’t see anything; just tried to put a metal support beam between me and where I thought the shots were coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/22 "2006-02-07T19:18:21Z")
> [@Analogue Skywalker](#): > > Say my schooling for Industrial Robotics goes as planned and the path I take is bomb squad work and I become a full fledged police officer and not a cilivian working for the department… > > Would I be required to apprehend someone if say I was at a party on my night off and I witnessed someone selling drugs or a minor drinking? No, not _required_ to arrest, usually ,unless it is in the written general orders that you will arrest. Commonly, domestic violence-related general orders will say that the “officer will arrest.” However, as a practical matter you had better leave that party, pronto. Many an officer has lost his job over attendance at parties or bars where there was illegal stuff going on. Felony crimes are a different matter. An officer (who is a sworn officer of the court, I believe) is not supposed to ignore felonies. If you are at a party and witness a gang rape, you are in some shit. You don’t have to make the arrest but you do have to report and give all evidence you know. You might even have a duty to intervene, if at all possible without dying yourself. CubHubby and I once busted 3 guys for growing marijuana when we stumbled onto them while we were fishing. We might have walked away except it was a isolated location and we didn’t know how far they might go to protect their little crop. They turned out to be relatively harmless. In a way, they got arrested in self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/23 "2006-02-07T19:54:42Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Sorry to be the one to do this, but it’s piqued my interest. What are “tactical reasons”? You’re off duty inside the gas station when the guy in front of you at the counter wasn’t paying for gas…he was robbing the place. He spins around and points a gun at you and demands your wallet. No way to draw down on him. Hand over the wallet and get him another day. But when he sees the badge in your wallet he panics. **BLAM!** This happened some years back to an officer I know of in a fast food restaurant. (he survived). The problem with having a badge on you off duty, especially on your belt or in your wallet, is that it can ID you as a cop whether you want to be or not. I’ve had quite a few instructors & supervisors tell me it’s better to just carry an ID card off duty. Even [HR 218](http://njlawman.com/Feature%20Pieces/HR%20218.htm) only requires an ID card, not a badge. However, some departments REQUIRE their officers to carry a badge off duty, especially if they go armed. Then theres no choice in the matter. I read quite recently that MIlwaukee started requiring this of theirs. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/24 "2006-02-07T19:57:40Z")
What kind of “Identification” is Necessary Under HR 218? ``` (d) The identification required by this subsection is the **photographic identification** [emphasis added] issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/25 "2006-02-07T20:09:14Z")
Interesting. Thanks **pkbites**. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/26 "2006-02-07T21:45:21Z")
I very rarely carry off-duty. It is not a requirement for my department. If I see a crime I will call 911 and be the best witness I can. Jumping into the middle of something out of uniform with no back-up is a sure way to get yourself kilt. For examle see the officer who was killed by that Sopranos actor and his friend. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/27 "2006-02-07T21:49:43Z")
We had an interesting situation in a school here. The police chief from the next town signed on as our basketball coach. His contract as police chief required him to be armed basically all the time (even when off-duty). The standard contract for school employees specifically forbids carrying of firearms on school property or at school-sponsored athletic events. The school ended up changing his contract, figuring it was better for his pistol to be on his belt instead of out in his car in the parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/28 "2006-02-08T01:05:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It is not a requirement for my department. Same here. And like I said before, my department won’t even let us carry their gun off duty. Which means if you carry your own weapon off duty you better haver qualified with in training. I just carry my own on duty too (allowed). Our deputy chief said that he’d rather we not carry off duty but felt the department didn’t have the legal authority to bar us from carrying our own weapons. I carry a firearm about 10% of the time while working as a security consultant. But only when the assignment warrants it. I can’t just pack whenever I want. And when I do, it’s under the licensing authority of whatever state I’m working in, not as an off duty police officer. When I do carry on my “own time” I tend to carry 24/7. But it’s for personal protection, not law enforcement reasons. I prefer [open carry](http://www.opencarry.org/) where it’s legal rather than having to worry about keeping it hidden. When I have to CCW I like [GUN MATE](http://www.unclemikes.com/adtemplate.asp?invky=9004564&catky=3407251&subcatky1=4548802&subcatky2=2000214) pouch. It’s like a small fanny pack only it uses your pants belt, not an additional belt like a fanny pack. I also like my [BAG MASTER](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.bagmaster.com/website/cart/images/products%255CBPP-S-BLKWEBL.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.bagmaster.com/website/cart/shopexd.asp%3Fid%3D42&h=209&w=288&sz=7&tbnid=uDzNEFGB-u3dYM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=110&hl=en&start=6&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbagmaster%2Bbelt%2Bpistol%2Bpack%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DN) belt pistol pack. Both the Gunmate & the Bag Master are just large enough to take a Glock 27, but small enough that they fit on the belt without drawing any attention to them. For carrying inside of a coat or suit jacket pocket I LOVE [CLIPDRAW](http://www.clipdraw.com/)! ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/29 "2006-02-08T02:31:45Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I can’t just pack whenever I want. And when I do, it’s under the licensing authority of whatever state I’m working in, not as an off duty police officer. I hate to tell a cop his business, but IIRC, you _can_ pack whenever and wherever you want in the US. [link](http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html) ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/30 "2006-02-08T02:38:27Z")
I’m a cop, too. I have the authority to arrest in my jurisdiction at all times, on or off duty. Even while on-duty, my authority to arrest outside of my jurisdiction depends on several factors (due to an absolutely stupid law in this state). Other than domestic violence assaults, I am never “required” to make an arrest. I always have discretion. Failure to exercise that discretion in certain circumstances can get me in trouble, but there are no absolute requirements. My department policy states that officers “should not” get involved in law enforcement activity while off duty, and specifically states that we cannot be disciplined for choosing not to act. If I see someone committing a crime while I’m off-duty, I’ll either not worry about it, call someone who is on-duty to handle it, or follow-up later when I’m working. It all depends on the crime involved and the circumstances. I would only jump in myself if someone where in serious danger and there were no other options available. Many cops are killed when they try to enforce the law while off-duty. They forget that they don’t have the usual tools of the trade (baton, TASER, pepper spray, etc.), don’t have a radio to call for help and don’t have backup. Perhaps most importantly, they aren’t in uniform. The uniform carries with it a lot of impact, and people are far less likely to really try to hurt or kill someone in uniform as opposed to the same person in plain clothes. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/31 "2006-02-08T02:54:37Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > I hate to tell a cop his business, but IIRC, you _can_ pack whenever and wherever you want in the US. > [link](http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html) I already spoke of HR218. Read the entire thread before posting. And read the wording of HR218 while you’re at it. Because you are wrong. Very wrong. HR 218 specifically protects private property rights. I cannot pack “wherever & whenever I want”. When I am working my regular full time job as a security consultant I cannot pack a gun whenever the hell I want. I cannot have a gun in the office unless permitted to do so. I cannot have one in my company owned vehicle unless permitted to do so. If I don’t like it I can quit. At my full time job we do get assignments, like executive protection cases, where we do carry firearms. Even with HR 218 while working as a private contractor an off duty must still get a carry permit. Insurance & liability reaons & such. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/32 "2006-02-08T16:26:34Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I already spoke of HR218. Read the entire thread before posting. And read the wording of HR218 while you’re at it. Ugh.:smack: That was kind of an obnoxious reply. Didn’t intend to sound so pissy. Back to the OP: one of the problem that cops have when they moonlight is if their department requires action off duty. Sometimes the situation is addressed in written policy, sometimes it’s not. I know an officer (full time) who works on one of his days off at an airline. I know the department he works for does require action while off duty within the jurisdiction. I doubt his part-time employer would appreciate him making an arrest for something petty on their time. Don’t know if his departments policies cover that or not. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/33 "2006-02-08T19:18:56Z")
I have not studied HR218 because I haven’t put myself in a position for it to matter. There is one more restriction to carrying off duty that I have to deal with. In New Jersey all officers must qualify with the weapon they carry twice a year. If I want to carry a weapon off duty I have to go in on my own time and qualify with each weapon I want to carry. No way I’m going to carry that cannon I have while in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/34 "2006-02-08T19:30:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I have not studied HR218 because I haven’t put myself in a position for it to matter. There is one more restriction to carrying off duty that I have to deal with. In New Jersey all officers must qualify with the weapon they carry twice a year. If I want to carry a weapon off duty I have to go in on my own time and qualify with each weapon I want to carry. No way I’m going to carry that cannon I have while in uniform. We used to have to qualify 3 times a year (per the dept., not the state). But budget cuts forced them to fall back to the state mandate of once per year. But I also have to qualify for the permits I have in several states for my regular gig. The police qualification doesn’t cover that. No way does the chief want the pd’s training to be scrutinized in court if I get into a shooting as a private dick. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/35 "2006-02-08T20:40:20Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > If I see someone committing a crime while I’m off-duty, I’ll either not worry about it, call someone who is on-duty to handle it, or follow-up later when I’m working. It all depends on the crime involved and the circumstances. Just curious, does following up later while on-duty mean anything other than reporting it to a detective or task force working on that type of issue? If so, what does it mean, and what circumstances would require it? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333/36 "2006-02-09T04:05:43Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > To further clarify and correct with facts, the fight wasn’t at a bar, it followed a 5-on-1 beatdown of the shot officer (who was not killed) in a White Castle. Additionally, Officer Hernandez, the shot officer, did **not** show a badge. I’m unaware of another recent cop-on-cop shooting in NYC, so I assume you are talking about this case. Sadly, Officer Hernandez, age 24, was taken off of life support and has died. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-police-officers-always-on-duty/343333.md?page=1)