# Are pooh bears real?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289 "2009-09-16T05:32:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/41 "2009-09-17T12:30:48Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I thought one of the signifying features of the drop bear was it’s similary to the koala. The Thylacoleo looks nothing like a koala. I beg to differ. The skulls are very similar, as is the stoutness. Do not be mislead by reconstructions that force the Thylacoleo carnifex into a lion skin – they were (and are) very different creatures. Besides, as I said, the Drop Bear is most likely a different species of Thylacoleo than _carnifex_, just as a jaguar is a different species of Panthera than a true lion. Reconstructions based on the plains-dwellng specimens would be inaccurate depictions of the arboreal species. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/42 "2009-09-17T12:56:29Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I beg to differ. The skulls are very similar, as is the stoutness. Do not be mislead by reconstructions that force the Thylacoleo carnifex into a lion skin – they were (and are) very different creatures. > > Besides, as I said, the Drop Bear is most likely a different species of Thylacoleo than _carnifex_, just as a jaguar is a different species of Panthera than a true lion. Reconstructions based on the plains-dwellng specimens would be inaccurate depictions of the arboreal species. Skeletal adaptions, including pseudo-opposable powerful first digits and a high radius/humerus ratio, support the likelihood that _Thylacoleo carnifex_ had some degree of scansorial habit. _Thylacopardus_, or ‘pouched leopard’, may have been a more apt description. More [here](http://www.naturalworlds.org/thylacoleo/discovery/locomotion.htm). ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/43 "2009-09-17T13:28:57Z")
Well there you have it. You can argue with me, but you can’t argue with a high radius/ humerus ratio. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/44 "2009-09-17T13:39:57Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > … a high radius/ humerus ratio. Would that be a comedy circle that’s big but not very funny? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/45 "2009-09-17T14:03:23Z")
In researching the subject I was particularly impressed with certain points of biological accuracy represented in ‘Yogi Bear’, notably Yogi’s trouncing of an African lion in ‘[Ring-a-Ding Picnic Basket](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZQy4U-Xlqc)’ (5:27 onwards). Grizzly bears indeed outperform lions in a contest, by virtue of the lion’s relatively thin skull, which is typically crushed before the lion has a chance to attack the neck. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/46 "2009-09-17T14:20:59Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > What is the species of bear that wanders around national parks wearing a hat and tie? It has a habit of stealing picnic baskets. If you’re talking about a bear that steals burning picnic baskets, that’s the rare [Smokey.](http://www.smokeybear.com/) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/47 "2009-09-17T14:25:10Z")
> [@Captain\_Awesome](#): > > In researching the subject I was particularly impressed with certain points of biological accuracy represented in ‘Yogi Bear’, notably Yogi’s trouncing of an African lion in ‘[Ring-a-Ding Picnic Basket](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZQy4U-Xlqc)’ (5:27 onwards). Grizzly bears indeed outperform lions in a contest, by virtue of the lion’s relatively thin skull, which is typically crushed before the lion has a chance to attack the neck. Shoot, I thought you were linking to footage of a grizzly vs lion fight. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/48 "2009-09-17T14:59:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Awesome](#): > > Geographical range would really exclude the sloth bear, being an Asiatic species. Considering we are discussing a talking bear wearing a tie and a porkpie hat, I’m not sure that natural range enters in to it. He might be an undocumented immigrant. The name “Yogi” certainly suggests he may be of the Hindu persuasion and most likely of Indian origin. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/49 "2009-09-17T15:44:57Z")
Which would make “Boo-boo” a pet form of “Babu”, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/50 "2009-09-17T16:24:52Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > What is the species of bear that wanders around national parks wearing a hat and tie? It has a habit of stealing picnic baskets. That brings up the question were Yogi and Boo Boo the same species of bear? I mean Yogi was so much taller, so was Boo Boo just a younger bear who hadn’t grown up? Or was he a kind of dwarf bear? Or was he a totally different species. Both Yogi and Boo Boo seemed to have a definate like of berries and nuts and shunned attacking other animals too. As for the OP question I guess it’d be better to rephrase it as “Was Winnie-the-Pooh” a particular species of bear? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/51 "2009-09-17T16:37:10Z")
Apparently the original “Winnie” from the zoo where Milne took his child was an American Black Bear, _Ursus americanus_. However, the stuffed toy bear that Christopher Robin had was probably the European Brown Bear, _Ursus arctos_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/52 "2009-09-17T16:39:11Z")
Now, on to the Heffalump… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/53 "2009-09-17T16:47:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Considering we are discussing a talking bear wearing a tie and a porkpie hat, I’m not sure that natural range enters in to it. He might be an undocumented immigrant. The name “Yogi” certainly suggests he may be of the Hindu persuasion and most likely of Indian origin. Well we can agree that the location is fairly certainly North America given the cultural and environmental cues. Assuming Jellystone Park is somewhat analogous to Yellowstone Park, then it’s really a choice between two native species (of which grizzly is more likely), or a possible Asiatic/Hindu genealogy, based on the given etymological evidence. It’s difficult to identify any cultural traits that might otherwise identify Yogi as being a recent immigrant. Consequently we can assume that if he was (or if his recent ancestors were), he’s now so well integrated that any such cues are insufficient to differentiate his true origin. The only remaining evidence is physiological and behavioural, which tends to support the grizzly hypothesis. For example, note that when feeding Boo Boo, Yogi isn’t in the practice of producing a regurgitate, in the same manner that a sloth bear does (also a local delicacy in India), but instead offers the scavenged contents of a _pic-a-nic basket_ undigested, a practice demonstrated in grizzlies. Stature would also be an anomaly, given that Yogi is equal to Ranger Smith in height, whilst sloth bears and relatively stunted. Likewise, Yogi isn’t in the habit of transporting Boo Boo around on his back, frequent behaviour for a slot bear accompanied by young. All of which leads me to conclude that the balance of evidence firmly supports Yogi’s genus being _Ursus arctos horribilis_, the grizzly bear. To be fair however, Yogi would have an Asiatic ancestry (specifically Siberian) given a sufficient lineage. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/54 "2009-09-17T16:54:17Z")
Considering the turn this thread has taken, perhaps it’s better to move it to MPSIMS from GQ, where issues such as Yogi Bear’s possible religious background and the evolution of drop bears may be debated more freely. 😉 Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/55 "2009-09-17T16:56:53Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Both Yogi and Boo Boo seemed to have a definate like of berries and nuts and shunned attacking other animals too. :dubious: Yogi _hated_ nuts and berries. I think he would be quite happy attacking a ham or turkey sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/56 "2009-09-17T17:25:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Now, on to the Heffalump… Also somewhat controversial, though evidence from the [original illustration](http://sonorus.princeton.edu/hefalmp/images/Shepard_heffalump.png?1214931688) would suggest an African elephant, given the tusk length and size, and cranial shape. However, ear size and lower lip shape do confuse the issue. The more opaque matter is that of identifying _Woozles_, and the _Wizzles_ which frequently accompanying them. There’s little in the way of [illustrative](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/3066786506_feba9e26cc.jpg) or descriptive cues given (though sometimes assumed to be analogous to a weasel). Further original drawings [here](http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/2008/11/original-winnie-pooh-drawings.html). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289/57 "2009-09-17T18:38:07Z")
That illustration is _clearly_ an Indian/Asiatic elephant. Note that the spine is arched, with the midpoint in the middle of the back. African elephants’ spines slope away from the shoulder. > [@](#): > > It’s difficult to identify any cultural traits that might otherwise identify Yogi as being a recent immigrant. Consequently we can assume that if he was (or if his recent ancestors were), he’s now so well integrated that any such cues are insufficient to differentiate his true origin. The only remaining evidence is physiological and behavioural, which tends to support the grizzly hypothesis. Well, all available evidence indicates that Yogi was smarter than your average bear, and Asian-origin students do outperform students of other ethnic groups on standardized tests… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-pooh-bears-real/510289.md?page=2)