Interesting choice of words. One of the things we’re taught in nursing school (which is roundly ignored in the actual world, it seems) is that consistent routine without excessive sleep is very important in treating the mentally ill. You let a person in a psychotic state set his own sleep schedule, and it makes his symptoms worse. You let a depressed person sleep as much as she wants, and it takes much longer for her to get better. Getting people up and keeping them busy with activities and groups is supposed to be very therapeutic.
Considering that so many people in prison are mentally ill, it seems to me a very good idea to utilize those same strategies in prison.
Fascinating. So, what happened if they missed their train back out to the prison? Easy enough for that to happen innocently - miss your subway, arrive at the train platform as the train is pulling out, and now you’re just out of luck.
During my short stay in the cuckoo’s nest, they made you get up at 7:00 to do vitals and meds. Then you could go back to your room and sleep all day if you wanted, as long as you didn’t sleep anywhere else. After two days of no sleep, mostly because I hadn’t slept in a bed for decades, I finally fell asleep on the back of a couch in the day room. They woke me up to tell me that, if I wanted to sleep, I had to do it in my room.
They made you go to bed at 10 p.m. but you could lie there awake all night if you wanted.
Some people in this thread seem to have the impression that prisoners don’t do any work. Unless they’re in solitary confinement, they do have jobs. Inmates often assist with the operations of the prison; for example, my friend who went to prison said that he was responsible for helping to prepare the salad bar and some other stuff in the kitchen. He got up very early since he was responsible for preparing breakfast.
I’m sure there’s going to be variance if you include every prison in the world. I was referring to prisons in the U.S. What I have heard, anecdotally, is that the typical prison in the U.S. has its inmates doing labor.
I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing. I’m not referring to prisoners making sweaters that can then be sold at a lower price because they were made by unpaid prisoners. I’m talking about something akin to a real job, where a prisoner does some work and is paid for his time. Not in cash, but in something akin to food stamps: tokens that can be exchanged for goods. The way it was described to me, there was something akin to a college bookstore on the premises.
It’s entirely possible that I’m taking anecdotes and erroneously extrapolating based on this. I just know that someone who has been in several federal prisons in different parts of the country described this experience to me, and he made it sound like that was the norm for federal prisons.
Nope. You absolutely can force prisoners to work in the United States. I used to do it all the time.
Check the 13th Amendment: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
Okay, I just got off the phone with my friend from prison. Here’s what he said regarding the OP and regarding working in prison:
Regarding waking up early, he said they often wake you up early, but not always. It depends on several factors: (1) How mean your prison guard is; (2) If they’re doing inspection they’ll wake you (making sure they don’t have anything illegal there, make sure they’ve kept things neat); or (3) They’ll wake you for count times (making sure everyone is present and accounted for).
In any prison that is part of the federal circuit, prisoners are required to work. There are only two exceptions to this: (1) If you are in solitary confinement you don’t work; and (2) If you have a medical condition that prevents you from working, you can be exempt from this qualification. Their “store” is called a commissary, and he said it’s like what they have on army bases.
I wonder how that amendment has been interpreted. For example, does the forced labour have to form part of the sentence passed by the judge? Or does merely being incarcerated give the prison staff the right to force you to work at their whim?
What about people who are in jail awaiting trial? It would seem they can’t legally be forced to work at all (since they aren’t convicted yet), but I imagine most pre-trial detainees would still be lining up to work if only out of boredom and to buy stuff from the commissary.
But how can you force someone to work? I’m sure you can’t beat them if they don’t comply. And I don’t think it’d be constitutional to withhold food or anything else necessary for life.
And you say it’s an automatic part of the sentence. You mean that all prisoners are required to work; it’s implicitely part of their sentence? What kind of work are we talking about here, and what hours do they work? Are they paid for it?
I will admit that in some regards, the US justice and prison system baffles and scares me.
Presumably you could withhold access to other resources and facilities which have been deemed non-necessary, such as recreation, visitors, or communication. Maybe you could also punish an inmate who refuses to work by increasing the length of his sentence.
Keep in mind we’re not talking about hard labor here. We’re talking about things like mopping the floor, mowing the grass, and washing dishes - the kinds of things your mom and dad made you do when you were a kid. And going to school counts as a job.
The system in NY is based on “modules” which theoretically consist of three hours. But a lot of jobs don’t take that long. If your job is to sweep and mop the floor, you might finish your work in thirty minutes. Prisoners are supposed to work two modules a day.
There’s a disciplinary system and refusing to work is a violation. You get a hearing (I literally did thousands of these) and a chance to make your case. If you’re found guilty you can get various punishments. The usual ones for low-level stuff like refusing to work is a loss of privileges like TV or hanging out in the yard or (ironically) extra work assignments.
Prisoners are paid (at least in New York but other states differ) but the sums involved are pretty minimal. But we throw in free room and board and there’s a great health plan.
