# Are Punishments for Possession of Child Pornography Excessive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306 "2013-06-18T21:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/101 "2013-06-21T14:35:40Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t expect you to respond to anything in particular, I just expect you to understand that I have not said we should allow anything. I have said that it’s worth looking into whether or not it will reduce harm for everyone, with the requirement that _it in no way increases the harm done to children_, if possession of drawn child porn is decriminalized. We should investigate approaches that might work. I have never said “we should do it because it might work”, but that’s the position you always argue against, not the position of “we should do research”. Okay, do the research. My guess is that a better approach would be doing almost anything that is the opposite of encouraging a fetish which leaves non-offending pedophiles to live a lonely life full of shame and disfunction. My guess is that a better approach would be to offer the non-offending pedophile tools to escape the grip of such a life limiting inclination. My guess is that we’d have to rely on the notoriously unreliable self-report in order to discover non-offending pedophiles who may or may not need treatment, and that leaving simulated child porn unregulated, unpoliced, and encouraged as treatment will open the court system up to litigation for permitting free access to those materials. It just sounds like a bad idea. But sure: let’s do the research, especially now, while the “pedophiles are the last group it’s okay to discriminate against” theme is popular. We don’t treat any other social disfunction with immersion in the disfuntional behavior which limits their existence. We don’t encourage agorophobes to stay home. We don’t encourage repetitive behaviors for sufferers of OCD. We don’t send sex addicts to brothels. If you can demonstrate why you feel that pedophiles should be allowed free access to simulated child porn as a means/method of treatment, I’ll change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/102 "2013-06-21T14:40:09Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Troppus, thank you for sharing that personal anecdote that helps back up why you have the opinions that you do. This has been a great discussion and I honestly can’t think of anything else I have left to ask you! I also don’t think you were in any way being rude. Others were making the claim that _maybe_ allowing pedophiles to have access to cartoons of kids being sexualized would help them, but I wasn’t and just wanted to get your opinions overall on the legality of it for other reasons.🙂 That example isn’t measurable or repeatable, it’s nothing more than an anecdote, just like my experience with the foot fetishists. And really, that incident was a mild blip on a massively ugly decade as a social worker. Not that big of a deal, and not enough to color my perceptions of matters of sexuality. But I did get to witness, up close and personal, a reaction to a vivid, violent, and convincing rape scene that made me far more uncomfortable than the facts that inspired the movie. People are pretty suggestible. We’ve got to be pretty careful with what information we put out there, and consider our audience, too. I love our freedoms here, but in the wrong hands, permissiveness can have devastatingly negative effects. Thanks for your vote of confidence, I always find your view far more compassionate and generous than mine usually is, and I trust your experience and insight. You’re a very cool guy. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/103 "2013-06-23T14:51:18Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Pedophilia has a strict clinical definition that means EXCLUSIVELY pre-pubescent. So the age is a little fuzzy, but if the kid hasn’t hit puberty or isn’t going through puberty at the time, and that’s what you find attractive, you’re a pedophile. Someone who enjoys looking at images of 13-15 year old girls or boys may be pervert, but he/she’s not a pedophile by definition. > > The other age ranges (tweens and teens) would fall under other categories, hebephilia (going through puberty) and ephebophilia (post puberty but still young). Sorry, I erred in saying paedophilia. The poster I was responding to said it was child molestation, so I should have asked how young is it to qualify as child molestation if it is legal to marry an 8yo in Saudi, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/104 "2013-06-23T14:56:52Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Okay, do the research. My guess is that a better approach would be doing almost anything that is the opposite of encouraging a fetish which leaves non-offending pedophiles to live a lonely life full of shame and disfunction. My guess is that a better approach would be to offer the non-offending pedophile tools to escape the grip of such a life limiting inclination. > > My guess is that we’d have to rely on the notoriously unreliable self-report in order to discover non-offending pedophiles who may or may not need treatment, and that leaving simulated child porn unregulated, unpoliced, and encouraged as treatment will open the court system up to litigation for permitting free access to those materials. It just sounds like a bad idea. But sure: let’s do the research, especially now, while the “pedophiles are the last group it’s okay to discriminate against” theme is popular. > > We don’t treat any other social disfunction with immersion in the disfuntional behavior which limits their existence. We don’t encourage agorophobes to stay home. We don’t encourage repetitive behaviors for sufferers of OCD. We don’t send sex addicts to brothels. If you can demonstrate why you feel that pedophiles should be allowed free access to simulated child porn as a means/method of treatment, I’ll change my mind. So is it OK to view anime which has childlike girls often dressed in erotic clothing, but not engaged in sex? Where is the line drawn? Should Bilitis be banned? Should David Hamilton be incarcerated for life? Should Jeremy Irons be prosecuted? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/105 "2013-06-30T23:41:59Z")
Here is a series of posts: [http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130622/NEWS01/306220027/Ankeny-man-charged-child-porn-case](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130622/NEWS01/306220027/Ankeny-man-charged-child-porn-case) [http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130628/NEWS01/306280038/Police-find-children-s-toys-Ankeny-porn-suspect-s-basement](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130628/NEWS01/306280038/Police-find-children-s-toys-Ankeny-porn-suspect-s-basement) and the reason the police will no longer pursue the suspect: [http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130630/NEWS/130630007/1001/?nclick\_check=1](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130630/NEWS/130630007/1001/?nclick_check=1) Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![andrew\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@andrew\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrew_1)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/106 "2013-07-02T02:29:52Z")
A serious question I’ve wondered for a while: how did pedophiles (“before the Internet”) find each other to swap pictures and movies, as they apparently do? This is one of those things you only ever see on Criminal Minds and I have no idea how this would work in the real world. In the pre-Internet age, how did this happen? I can’t imagine a plausible scenario for how someone looking for child porn would end up getting their hands on it from someone else. It’s probably fair to say anyone who desperately wanted child porn knew it was a desire that had to be kept secret, so how did they find people to buy images and videos from, or find people to sell their own porn to? It’s hardly the kind of small talk topic that two people in the stands at a ballet recital are going to come up with and magically they’re both pedophiles. So how does it happen? Is it one of those things where if you _are_ one, you can spot _other ones_? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306/107 "2013-07-02T02:50:34Z")
A big part of what lets reprobates discuss their illegal interests with judiciously selected others without much fear of being reported is the simple fact that by and large, most people are really quite reluctant to rat out family members and those who they consider to be their good friends, especially for offenses committed against a victim who they’ve never met. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-punishments-for-possession-of-child-pornography-excessive/661306.md?page=5)