# Are religious people crazy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739 "2011-07-20T18:11:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/21 "2011-07-20T19:59:24Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I fully agree with JThunder. While I’m not particularly religious and consider myself agnostic, I was raised in a very religious home and know first-hand the power of religious beliefs that are taught from childhood. This is not “brainwashing”, as that implies there are beliefs that need to be “washed” out of the brain to be replaced by new beliefs. “Indoctrination” would be more accurate, but those who practice that would simply consider it “education”. > > Up until high school, I had no doubts about the things I had been taught (including things like Creationism), and believed that non-believers were more or less demons sent by Satan to corrupt us. > > The only reason I no longer believe this is because I was allowed to listen to popular (secular) music, leading to exposure to heavy metal (we’re talking the '80s when it was all the rage). It was actually a terrifying experience to listen to the likes of Ozzy Osbourne and Def Leppard for the first time, after my church had taught me for years that these bands were pure evil. It was only when Satan himself failed to appear to claim my soul that I started to listen to other things that contradicted my Christian upbringing. > > I would imagine that if I lived in a more isolated environment where secular influences are more thoruoghly filtered out, I may very well have remained a fundamentalist into adulthood. I wasn’t crazy then, it was just what I was taught. So irrational. With a little sprikling of crazy (demons out to get you?). I stand by my vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/22 "2011-07-20T20:01:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Take a good long look at human history. 90% is _optimistic_. No workable definition of “crazy” can include 90% of humans. You might as well say that 90% of humans aren’t human. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/23 "2011-07-20T20:02:01Z")
Are people who ask questions like,“Are religous people crazy”, crazy? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/24 "2011-07-20T20:03:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Wrong is different than crazy. I have no problem with saying other people are wrong, obviously whatever the real answer is, large amounts of people will have been wrong about it. However, thinking that people who believe differently are crazy is just so blatantly narcisstic that it beggars belief that someone would admit to that. Oh please. Again, this is the hypocrisy. If it’s demons out to get your soul!! It’s a belief that should be respected and in no way is any indication of the crazies. If it’s the same thing, but from another religion or simply some other wacky belief it’s, “Wow, look at those nut jobs”. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/25 "2011-07-20T20:04:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No workable definition of “crazy” can include 90% of humans. You might as well say that 90% of humans aren’t human. Who are you to say that crazy isn’t part of the human condition? Maybe crazy is the norm and rationality is the deviation. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense (maybe I’m crazy too!?). We have evolved to be extremely susceptible to “indoctrination” at a young age. Along with important concepts and ideas (evolutionary advantage) we also pick up the crazies from our parents/peer group/society. And our brains have also evolved to make patters out of random events. This helped keep us alive, but also allowed the crazies in. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/26 "2011-07-20T20:07:36Z")
The OP needs to get out more. Meet some real, live religious people, and not just the loonies on TV. Some religious people are, indeed, crazy, to greater or lesser degrees. Or maybe we should say, some crazy people are religious. But some religious people are among the sanest, most grounded, most level-headed people I know. If you judge craziness vs. sanity based on competence at dealing with those facets of life that theists and atheists both agree fall under the heading of Reality, I don’t see any evidence that the religious people are any worse off. [QUOTE=brocks] Either they are crazy, or I am crazy. [/QUOTE] Why can’t it be both? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/27 "2011-07-20T20:08:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No workable definition of “crazy” can include 90% of humans. Nonsense. If aliens filled the atmosphere of the planet with schizophrenia inducing gas, 100 percent of us would be insane. Numbers have nothing to do with whether or not someone or something is sane. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/28 "2011-07-20T20:19:43Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Are religious people crazy? No. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Are the non-religious stupid? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/29 "2011-07-20T20:21:52Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No. > > Yes. In what way? There is no evidence for any religion being true. Why is not believing in something with no evidence stupid? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/30 "2011-07-20T20:23:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I daresay the vast, _vast_ majority are just responding to the cues of the environment they found themselves in - get born to Christians, you become a Christian; get born to Jews, you become a Jew, get born to Muslims… etc. That’s crazy talk 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/31 "2011-07-20T20:24:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Most people historically supported slavery and the inferiority of women… Actually, I heard somewhere that the population usually divided about 50:50 on support for the inferiority of women. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/32 "2011-07-20T20:24:23Z")
The consensus among scholars who study religion, both believers and non-believers, is that crazy and/or stupid are not useful words to describe religious people or their religious experiences. A book I can recommend is: [Religious Experience Reconsidered: A Building-Block Approach to the Study of Religion and Other Special Things](http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Experience-Reconsidered-Building-Block-Approach/dp/0691140871) by Ann Taves, former President of the American Academy of Religion. There’s a lot of research going on in the field of religion, including how people come to deem experiences they have as religious (what the above book is mostly about), how religious communities and doctrines function in day to day life, and basically just how that whole religion thing works, being done by reputable scholars firmly committed to the ideals of modern academia. If you were to look into it, I doubt you would change your beliefs about the truth of any religious claims, but hopefully you would come to feel more at ease with the religious people around you, and raise your opinion of humanity in general. I can’t guarantee you will change your judgment about certain politicians, but hey, a start is a start. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/33 "2011-07-20T20:24:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. If aliens filled the atmosphere of the planet with schizophrenia inducing gas, 100 percent of us would be insane. Numbers have nothing to do with whether or not someone or something is sane. If we’re going to consider scenarios involving aliens, then I guess you’re right. So let me rephrase: No workable definition of “crazy” can include 90% of humans in their natural state, who are perfectly able to function, reproduce and otherwise thrive every bit as well as the other 10%. “Crazy”, in order to mean anything, needs to be a pathological condition that sets one apart from the population in such as way as to be unable to fully function in a society. Once the majority of the population naturally adopts a given behavior, that is, by definition, the norm. If we all suddenly evolved to be serial killers, that would be the normal human condition. “Crazy” doesn’t mean “thinks differently than **DT** dose”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/34 "2011-07-20T20:28:30Z")
> [@Sandwich](#): > > Actually, I heard somewhere that the population usually divided about 50:50 on support for the inferiority of women. No, for whatever reason there’s been a lot of historical support for the alleged inferiority of women by women. Woman hating and woman oppressing groups tend to have an awful lot of female supporters. It’s a major reason why men have typically been in charge, in my opinion; while they exist, men who support the idea that _they_ are inferior and should be subjugated are very rare. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/35 "2011-07-20T20:29:25Z")
“Atheists, not believing in a God who is the source of morality, are all inherently immoral, or at best amoral.” The reason that proposition is incorrect is the same reason the OP is incorrect --regardless of your beliefs or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![HumanBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@HumanBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanBear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/36 "2011-07-20T20:32:01Z")
It’s a tough one, and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this without ever coming to a satisfactory conclusion. The things that many religious people say, think, and do could, as Der Trihs says, be classified as crazy. If instead of God they were talking about Zeus then we’d think they were crazy or at least stupid, and I suspect many Christians, for example, would think someone talking about Zeus as if he were real would be tempted to think just the same as atheists do when people talk about the Christian God. However as others have said most religious people are patently not crazy, at least in the sense that they can educate themselves about all kinds of things, hold down difficult jobs that many of us wouldn’t be able to do, converse with everyone about all manners of things, solve logic puzzles, get high IQ scores etc. There does seem to be some ability of the brain to hold two opposing thoughts at the same time, and to apply logic differently depending on the subject. I’m not sure I can do this and perhaps that’s why I’m a non-believer. I can’t even say this makes me a better person, but there does seem to be some kind of difference. I’m also very interested in suggestibility, some people just believe whatever the majority around them believes, and do whatever is expected of them in a given situation rather than using what some of us would call rational thinking. I’m not sure how many people fit into this group but I’m starting to think it’s lots, and for those of us who are not as suggestible they are really difficult to understand. I went to a stage hypnotist show last year, he told everyone to shut their eyes, think that their hands were rising without their control - when I opened my eyes I was surrounded by people with raised hands, it was a little shocking. I know hypnosis is not understood and some people think it’s all fake, but I knew some of these people and they couldn’t explain what was happening to them. On an aside, if anyone knows of any books or any websites that deal with suggestibility in terms of what it is, how many people are suggestible, theories behind it etc. then please let me know. I want to learn more, but have found little. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/37 "2011-07-20T20:33:05Z")
Care to state succinctly what precisely that “reason” is, **Poly**? Thanks very much. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/38 "2011-07-20T20:33:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So let me rephrase: No workable definition of “crazy” can include 90% of humans in their natural state, who are perfectly able to function, reproduce and otherwise thrive every bit as well as the other 10%. Nonsense. Again, insane is insane regardless of what the percentages are. And the believers _don’t_ function as well, and even if they did that wouldn’t make them any saner, it would just mean they live in a world designed to cater to their insantiy. And I noticed you dodged a basic point I was making; are you going to try to claim that if everyone on Earth was schizophrenic that schizophrenia is no longer a mental illness? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/39 "2011-07-20T20:36:45Z")
Using the[following definition:](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy) > [@](#): > > cra·zy    > [krey-zee] Show IPA > adjective, -zi·er, -zi·est, noun, plural -zies. > –adjective > 1. > mentally deranged; demented; insane. > **2. > senseless; impractical**; totally unsound: a crazy scheme. > 3. > Informal . intensely enthusiastic; passionately excited: crazy about baseball. Using the bolded definition, is it impractical to spend time worshipping and believing in something that doesn’t exist? Is it senseless to do the same? I mean, what’s the likelihood that of the numerous gods and goddesses mankind has worshipped since we have documented such things, that you-the religionist-have stumbled on the correct one? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739/40 "2011-07-20T20:38:26Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > “Atheists, not believing in a God who is the source of morality, are all inherently immoral, or at best amoral.” > > The reason that proposition is incorrect is the same reason the OP is incorrect --regardless of your beliefs or lack thereof. The reason that’s incorrect is because religion is a source of corruption, not morality. Obeying what God supposedly says is mindless obedience, not morality. And obeying what _you_ think God wants you to do is self indulgence since God is imaginary, so you are just doing whatever you like and putting a divine seal of approval on it. It’s the _believers_ who are " inherently immoral, or at best amoral", at least to the extent they base their behavior and attitudes on their religion. Moral behavior requires as a first step that the corruption and insanity of religion be ignored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-religious-people-crazy/589739.md?page=3)