# Are Retarded People Allowed to Vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519 "2004-06-28T06:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/21 "2004-06-28T19:38:33Z")
**Thaumaturge** - If you were developmentally challenged yet understood most things…maybe a 68 to 70 IQ…would you like being called retarded? I probably shouldn’t even ask…I most likely already know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/22 "2004-06-28T19:44:48Z")
I would most likely be confused as to why the name of my condition changed every 5 years for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/23 "2004-06-28T19:55:41Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > ahem… **DEVELOPMENTALLY** Delayed… :smack: > > Carry on. All bad jokes previously offered aside, is this accurate? To me, if something is delayed, it is only temporary and eventually it will no longer be delayed. I don’t think we are talking about individuals whose mental abilities will improve over time to the point they are no longer “delayed.” So why the phrase? Or is it the new PC phrase in the mental health community? ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/24 "2004-06-28T20:01:29Z")
I should add that **any** word or phrase can be an insult, depending upon how it is spoken and received. Any word that is associated with something negative will pick up negative associations in the mind of the speaker _if they let them_. If you do not remove the negative associations from the word, the next word you choose to replace the word will pick up the same associations, and you will be forced to change words yet again. This is a process without end. You **cannot** ever find a word that will offend no-one, when the subject that the word is chosen to represent is a touchy subject in people’s minds. It is a process without end, the very essense of futility. You can either halt the constant word swapping before it starts, or get dragged along like everyone else who doesn’t think about the real problem. And, at some point, the very obviousness of trying to talk around what you are trying to say and could have easily said without any double-speak becomes exasperating and insulting. Just come out and say what you mean. You can’t change the truth by inventing new words to cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/25 "2004-06-28T20:12:43Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > You can’t change the truth by inventing new words to cover it. No, but you can get rid of a host of negative perceptions that go with the word. Your post made my skin crawl it was so offensive and downright unfeeling and just plain mean to some of the sweetest most loving people I have ever known. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/26 "2004-06-28T20:25:02Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > ahem… **DEVELOPMENTALLY** Delayed… :smack: As far as the denotation of the words, I would just point out that “developmentally delayed” means exactly the same as “retarded.” And although I recognize that it has now acquired a strong pejorative sense, I suspect that “retarded” may well have originally gained currency decades ago as a “PC” replacement for terms like “moron” (which itself was once a medical term, indicating a relatively high-functioning “retarded” person compared to an idiot or an imbecile.) I can understand people being adverse to using “retard/retarded” because it has definitely now acquired a pejorative sense. However, I do think this process of word debasement is inevitable regardless of what term you adopt. If “developmentally delayed” becomes widespread, eventually kids will be calling each other “DD!” in the schoolyard. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/27 "2004-06-28T20:26:40Z")
You either didn’t fully read or fully understand my post. No, you _cannot_ get rid of the negative perceptions that go with the word. Why do you think they keep having to come out with new words? Was that not my whole point? I don’t have negative feelings towards retarded people, so the word is inoffensive to me. Same with handi-capped ( or whatever it’s called now) and other words that may or may not be offensive depending upon who you ask in what year. What is offensive to me is people with guilty consciences constantly trying to outrun their guilt on a treadmill of words that goes nowhere, trying to get everyone else to run with them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/28 "2004-06-28T20:38:55Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > I should add that **any** word or phrase can be an insult, depending upon how it is spoken and received. Any word that is associated with something negative will pick up negative associations in the mind of the speaker _if they let them_. If you do not remove the negative associations from the word, the next word you choose to replace the word will pick up the same associations, and you will be forced to change words yet again. > > This is a process without end. You **cannot** ever find a word that will offend no-one, when the subject that the word is chosen to represent is a touchy subject in people’s minds. It is a process without end, the very essense of futility. > > You can either halt the constant word swapping before it starts, or get dragged along like everyone else who doesn’t think about the real problem. > > And, at some point, the very obviousness of trying to talk around what you are trying to say and could have easily said without any double-speak becomes exasperating and insulting. Just come out and say what you mean. You can’t change the truth by inventing new words to cover it. Bullshit. You’ve basically just equated “black” with “nigger”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/29 "2004-06-28T20:40:46Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Bullshit. > > You’ve basically just equated “black” with “nigger”. Eeeek! Sorry, mods, wasn’t thinking, forgot I was in GQ, please edit that. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/30 "2004-06-28T21:02:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t have negative feelings towards retarded people, so the word is inoffensive to me Well you obviously do NOT have positive thoughts or this term would be offensive to you. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/31 "2004-06-28T21:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > What is offensive to me is people with guilty consciences constantly trying to outrun their guilt on a treadmill of words that goes nowhere, trying to get everyone else to run with them. Good now we are getting somewhere. Fine, you don’t like people with guilty consciences? Fine. For the record developmentally delayed is not a new word. Furthermore I am not a PC lexicon monger who corrects people mid sentence. Ask the folks in the threads about womyn… I started using the phrase when my wife and I (who are fiercly active in the Make-A-Wish Foundation) listened to a young man with down syndrom correct the VP of MAWF, by saying: “Please sir, I would rather you call what I have being developmentally delayed and not retarded…” I’ve never used the word since. And that incident happened in 1990 in Phoenix at MAWF corporate head quarters during a symposium on the special olympics and MAWF children. If you are against being PC…why not try being a little more sensitive to other peoples feelings, you don’t have to be PC for that now do you… > [@](#): > > I don’t have negative feelings towards retarded people, so the word is inoffensive to me. Same with handi-capped ( or whatever it’s called now) and other words that may or may not be offensive depending upon who you ask in what year. Try walking up to the next person you see with down syndrom and ask them how it feels to be retarded…It’s YOU who are not understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/32 "2004-06-28T21:06:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as the denotation of the words, I would just point out that “developmentally delayed” means exactly the same as “retarded.” > > And although I recognize that it has now acquired a strong pejorative sense, I suspect that “retarded” may well have originally gained currency decades ago as a “PC” replacement for terms like “moron” (which itself was once a medical term, indicating a relatively high-functioning “retarded” person compared to an idiot or an imbecile.) > > I can understand people being adverse to using “retard/retarded” because it has definitely now acquired a pejorative sense. However, I do think this process of word debasement is inevitable regardless of what term you adopt. If “developmentally delayed” becomes widespread, eventually kids will be calling each other “DD!” in the schoolyard. > > Just sayin’. Uh, no…not quite. Developmentally delayed maybe mental or physical, or both. “Retarded” was used to describe someone with mental deficiencies, but not physical deficiencies. \*The current definition for a developmental disability (for California) is: It is a disability originating before the age of 18 It is a disability that continues or is expected to continue indefinitely It is a substantially handicapping condition. The developmental disability includes one of the following: Mental Retardation Cerebral Palsy Autism Epilepsy Handicapping conditions closely related to mental retardation requiring treatment similar to that required for mentally retarded individuals. The law further states that a developmental disability shall not include conditions that are: solely psychiatric in nature solely learning disabilities solely physical in nature \* Using the word “retarded” is an overgeneralization…not because it is non-PC (please note that it is STILL used in the description above). As you can see, somebody that is developmentally disabled (delayed) may or may not be suffering from “retardation”. Many of you need to rethink the word “retard” for the reasons I stated above. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/33 "2004-06-28T21:23:56Z")
My sister refers to her daughter’s condition as ‘retarded’. It doesn’t make her love her any less, nor is it used derogatorily. She’s not ‘delayed’ in any sense of the word. Her development was halted at about where she is now. She isn’t going to get any less retarded as time goes by. She has the sweet disposition of a not-too-bright 14-year old. Yes, “retarded” might hurt her feelings. “Developmentally delayed” would only confuse her. But since neither term is used when addressing her, the PC version is only there for the benefit of adults too embarrassed to speak frankly. Her mental growth and ability was impaired and retarded by a doctor who was a bit to liberal with the forceps at birth. I have no problem with the word ‘retarded’, as long as it’s not perjorative. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/34 "2004-06-28T21:30:11Z")
I’ve never called someone with a disability a retard, except perhaps in my youth when I didn’t know any better. I am quite aware that there are many many forms of disabilities of which retardation is one type. It would be quite correct to call someone who was mantally retarded ‘retarded’. What does one call such a person to their face? Just their name. Just like anybody else. It would not be correct to call someone with cerebral palsy a retard. I do in fact know the difference. I do in fact know a girl who is so afflicted. However I still maintain that it is foolish to keep comming up with new names for the condition known as mental retardation in a vain attempt to not offend anyone in casual conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/35 "2004-06-28T21:39:04Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Uh, no…not quite. > > Developmentally delayed maybe mental or physical, or both. “Retarded” was used to describe someone with mental deficiencies, but not physical deficiencies. What I was referring to in my first paragraph above was the general dictionary definition of the words themselves (the denotation), not the more technical and narrower definitions they might have in a medical context or their connotation in popular speech. Thanks for the clarification as to the specific meaning of the word “retarded” in a medical context, as distinct from “developmentally delayed.” I personally would not advocate the use of the word “retarded” among people who would find it offensive, and certainly not in addressing or in front of someone with a mental deficiency. However, I don’t think the simple use of the word “retarded” to describe this condition can be considered offensive, as long as it is not seliberately used in a pejorative way. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/36 "2004-06-28T21:41:53Z")
To get back to the question in the OP, I happen to have several on my desk, so here is the wording on the Minnesota Voter Registration Application: > [@](#): > > I certify that I: > … > > - am not under court-ordered ‘guardianship of the person’ where I have not retained the right to vote; > - have not been found by a court legally incompetent to vote; > … So in Minnesota, it seems that you get to vote until a court says you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/37 "2004-06-28T21:57:21Z")
Well IQ results probably kept Mr. Atkins’ buttocks out of the death chamber. Linked is the Supreme Court’s holding in _Atkins v. Virginia_ — regarding the use of IQ when determining death sentences. [http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-8452.ZO.html](http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-8452.ZO.html) Here is a quote from that decision > [@](#): > > **…In the penalty phase, the defense relied on one witness, Dr. Evan Nelson, a forensic psychologist who had evaluated Atkins before trial and concluded that he was “mildly mentally retarded.” His conclusion was based on interviews with people who knew Atkins, a review of school and court records, and the administration of a standard intelligence test which indicated that Atkins had a full scale IQ of 59.** and a portion of the rationale – > [@](#): > > \*\*This consensus unquestionably reflects widespread judgment about the relative culpability of mentally retarded offenders, and the relationship between mental retardation and the penological purposes served by the death penalty. Additionally, it suggests that some characteristics of mental retardation undermine the strength of the procedural protections that our capital jurisprudence steadfastly guards. > > As discussed above, clinical definitions of mental retardation require not only subaverage intellectual functioning, but also significant limitations in adaptive skills such as communication, self-care, and self-direction that became manifest before age 18. Mentally retarded persons frequently know the difference between right and wrong and are competent to stand trial. Because of their impairments, however, by definition they have diminished capacities to understand and process information, to communicate, to abstract from mistakes and learn from experience, to engage in logical reasoning, to control impulses, and to understand the reactions of others. There is no evidence that they are more likely to engage in criminal conduct than others, but there is abundant evidence that they often act on impulse rather than pursuant to a premeditated plan, and that in group settings they are followers rather than leaders. Their deficiencies do not warrant an exemption from criminal sanctions, but they do diminish their personal culpability.\*\* And some more stuff at Note 5 – > [@](#): > > **… It is estimated that between 1 and 3 percent of the population has an IQ between 70 and 75 or lower, which is typically considered the cutoff IQ score for the intellectual function prong of the mental retardation definition. 2 B. Sadock & V. Sadock, Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry 2952 (7th ed. 2000). At the sentencing phase, Dr. Nelson testified: “[Atkins’] …Dr. Nelson also indicated that of the over 40 capital defendants that he had evaluated, Atkins was only the second individual who met the criteria for mental retardation. Id., at 310. He testified that, in his opinion, Atkins’ limited intellect had been a consistent feature throughout his life, and that his IQ score of 59 is not an “aberration, malingered result, or invalid test score.”** ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/38 "2004-06-28T22:24:29Z")
> [@START](#): > > In other words at what IQ level if any do they (U.S. Government) not let you do things like vote, get married and be independent from your parents or guardians? …. Or have babies? Yes, contrary to the previously cited Supreme Court decision, there does appear to be a downside to mental retardation when appearing in court. Here a judge orders a 33 year old retarded woman to be sterilized after giving birth to her tenth child — > [@](#): > > \*\*A Memphis judge has ordered long-term birth control for a 33-year-old woman who is mentally retarded and pregnant with her tenth child. > > Juvenile Court Referee Claudia Haltom signed a court order Friday that agrees with the recommendation of Loretta McGee’s state-appointed therapist. > > Officials say McGee’s first nine children – who range in age from 4 to 17 – cost the state thousands each month. McGee has said she wants to be surgically sterilized, but some civil rights activists worry that she won’t understand the court order and her right to choose. > > A judge can’t force someone to take long-term birth control or be sterilized for her caretakers’ convenience. There must be a medical necessity. > > McGee’s mother says her daughter has trouble swallowing birth control pills, and has tried Depo-Provera injections but hated the side effects.\*\* [http://www.wbir.com/News/news.asp?ID=18696](http://www.wbir.com/News/news.asp?ID=18696) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/39 "2004-06-28T23:25:24Z")
What’s wrong with “retarded”? If it’s synonymous with “developmentally disabled,” then why does it matter if I use the term? Me thinks some people need to grow up around here… ---
**Author:** ![Sparky1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sparky1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky1244)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519/40 "2004-06-29T02:00:34Z")
With regards to a developmentally delayed person’s right to vote (still laughing Phlosphr and Garfield) Homie laid it our quite nicely. From my experience, if a person in competent enough to want to vote, choose a candidate, get themselves to the polling station, and correctly fill out a ballot, they seem fit enough to me. It seems to be a natural way to identify those who can vote. Same could be said for all voters that care enough to get out there and feel they are informed enough to make a reasonable decision. Which is why I’m not entirely sure I support the recent Canadian “Get Out and Vote!” campaign. If you are too lazy, don’t care enough, or don’t know enough to want to vote, please stay at home. Let those who want to research, understand, and make an informed choice do the voting; don’t water those votes down with “I guess I should vote for someone” ballots. A few intelligent votes seems like a better idea than voting just for the sake of voting. And this way its the individual’s choice if they feel they should participate or not. But now I’m on an entirely different track… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-retarded-people-allowed-to-vote/252519.md?page=3)