# Are right turns on red optional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 6, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760 "2007-10-06T16:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/21 "2007-10-06T23:30:12Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] The signs for this purpose say “Left turn on red permitted after stopping.” They aren’t especially common. [/QUOTE] That they exist at all is of interest. I’m particularly interested (for the sake of this thread!) in the priority of pedestrians…in N America, right on red also requires giving way to pedestrians, whereas Europeans would never look at a pedestrian crossing to see if somebody was entering, because it’s always a strict either/or. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/22 "2007-10-06T23:33:08Z")
[QUOTE=galt] Hee hee. Same intersection, looking south, another clogger (making a right turn towards the camera) caught: [Bing](http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=ry4r0v4tn8nz&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3689021&encType=1) [/QUOTE] Christ. “Look in front of you, guys. That window, the big one, it’s all the way across, isn’t it? You paid money for that, and probably extra to insure it from being broken!! USE IT! Look in front of you and drive into the acre of fucking tarmac which awaits” ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/23 "2007-10-06T23:35:35Z")
[QUOTE=galt] There’s also the case where someone is cowering in the right-turn-only lane, trying to get up the nerve to pull out, and **THEY ARE TURNING INTO A CLEAR LANE DEDICATED TO THEM**. I’ll give you the horn for this one. [/QUOTE] Which is fine and dandy if the turn is clearly signed. I’ve driven through a couple of them where telepathic knowledge of the local road layouts are required. I slow down for those. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/24 "2007-10-06T23:37:35Z")
It’s pretty clear at this particular intersection. In that last link, which is a picture taken from a freaking airplane, you can clearly see the solid white line seperating your very own private lane from the rest of the scary traffic. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/25 "2007-10-06T23:37:40Z")
Pray god these people never navigate themselves to [Hangar Lane](http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.530613,-0.293493&spn=0.002369,0.005665&t=k&z=18&om=1) 😉 (yes, you can zoom in further, and yes, you are expected to find your lane all the way around) ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/26 "2007-10-06T23:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Pray god these people never navigate themselves to [Hangar Lane](http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.530613,-0.293493&spn=0.002369,0.005665&t=k&z=18&om=1) [/QUOTE] Dude. Have you seen that R.E.M. video where everyone on the freeway gets out of their cars and just leaves them sitting there? Because I think that’s what would happen if that road were installed in Redmond. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/27 "2007-10-06T23:49:43Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Which is fine and dandy if the turn is clearly signed. [/QUOTE] Around here they are usually signed “Keep Moving”, leading to the old saw about which of the two words is difficult to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/28 "2007-10-07T00:01:18Z")
> [@](#): > > All 50 states as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico have allowed right turns on red since January 1, 1980, unless a sign otherwise prohibits this. > > – snip – > > As of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 USC Sec. 6322 (c) (“Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible for Federal assistance under this part shall include: . . . (5) a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a motor vehicle to turn such vehicle **right at a red stop light after stopping** , and to turn such vehicle **left from a one-way street onto a one-way street at a red light after stopping**.”). Source: [Turn on red - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red) Of course, the definition of stopping varies, since most people never really stop. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/29 "2007-10-07T00:28:55Z")
[QUOTE=galt] Dude. Have you seen that R.E.M. video where everyone on the freeway gets out of their cars and just leaves them sitting there? Because I think that’s what would happen if that road were installed in Redmond. [/QUOTE] [MSN](http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.hangar%20lane%20station~yp.hangar%20lane&cp=51.530698~-0.293259&style=a&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=12485529&sp=Point.ph2s1j57s7bd_Hanson%20Lane%20Elementary%20School%20(school)%2C%20California%2C%20United%20States___&encType=1) have a link which has London buses, and you can read the lane markings when you zoom in and everything. The tube station in the middle is a forlorn object, built to be a [centrepiece](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:HangerLane-Central1.jpg) but overwhelmed by everything around it. And pity any bastard who sits down on that road! ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Ryle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Mark\_Ryle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Ryle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/30 "2007-10-07T01:11:33Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] It’s always “can” – hell, you “can” go on a green light, but you don’t have to, and shouldn’t if there are obstructions or if you think you might block the intersection, for instance. (Underscore mine – MR) [/QUOTE] What is the proper way, then, to deal with this situation: An intersection has a left-turn-only lane in addition to the normal lanes. The traffic signal has a left-turn green arrow, in addition to the normal green light. The left-turn green arrow activates about 15 seconds before the opposing traffic gets their green light, at which time the left-turn green arrow extinguishes. Most times, no more vehicles will be making a left turn anyway now, since (at this particular intersection) the oncoming traffic flows unceasingly until the lights change to red again. But on the occasion when the light is still green, and there is a gap in the oncoming traffic, or there is no more oncoming traffic, it is certainly allowable to make a left turn, since we have a green light, albeit not the dedicated left-turn-arrow. What is the best course of action when I am the second or third, or fifth, car in this dedicated left-turning lane and the lead car refuses to make his or her left turn? This happens to me often, and I am just wondering if others handle it with dignity and grace. I do not, but would consider changing my behavior (which is to quickly hit the horn) if I have been less than circumspect in my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/31 "2007-10-07T01:21:12Z")
Not a total hijack, I swear! In Oregon we have intersections where the stop signs have signs underneath them that say it’s okay to turn right without stopping–the first time someone visits from Cali I love going through one of those just to hear them freak out… Any place else have these? Oh, and those tardbiscuits who stop when they have a dedicated lane and no stop sign? I wanna give 'em all a big old push to help them along. Morons. Most of them feel the need to stop because what they REALLY want to do is to drive straight across three lanes to end up in the far left–I guess the half mile to the intersection where being in the left lane might make a difference is much too fraught with peril to actually get in the right hand lane, put on the turn signal and merge left. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/32 "2007-10-07T01:32:33Z")
[QUOTE=SmartAleq] Not a total hijack, I swear! In Oregon we have intersections where the stop signs have signs underneath them that say it’s okay to turn right without stopping–the first time someone visits from Cali I love going through one of those just to hear them freak out… Any place else have these? [/QUOTE] I’m Oregonian, too. These signs exist as indicators of the same situation others have mentioned above: the right turner has a dedicated lane after the turn (usually a few hundred feet of merge lane). They’re not incredibly common, although there’s one at the exit from my place of business, so I see it daily. I think the rarity of this sort of intersection is why people hesitate at them. You don’t expect merge lanes except on freeways, so they’re something of an anomaly. And no matter how many times _I’ve_ gone through it, the person in front of me may well be there for the first time, at a type of intersection they’ve never seen before. It wouldn’t even occur to me to honk – the light will change soon enough. I’m also highly inclined _not_ to make rights on red when the person behind me is tailgating or honking, but that’s just me being evil. (Although once, the old lady behind me gave me the finger, pulled into the (oncoming) lane to my left, made the turn in front of me – striking the vehicle that I could see coming, but she couldn’t. Luckily, the other driver was paying more attention, and it pretty much just cost them their doors.) ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/33 "2007-10-07T03:20:36Z")
CKDextHavn: > [@](#): > > And there are places, like Manhattan, where it’s not permitted (despite not having signs at each interesection.) Actually, all five boroughs of NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/34 "2007-10-07T07:50:10Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] In places where they drive on the left hand side of the road, we’re obviously talking about left turns, and not right turns. In Australia, or at least in New South Wales, you are not allowed to turn left on red unless specifically allowed to do so. The signs for this purpose say “Left turn on red permitted after stopping.” They aren’t especially common. [/QUOTE] Turning left on red lights in QLD and NZ is definitely _verboten_, unless you’ve got a green arrow on the lights, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/35 "2007-10-07T07:57:34Z")
[QUOTE=amarone] Allowing right turn on red in the UK would certainly have entertainment value. [/QUOTE] And in Thailand, which also drives on the left. But back to the US: If right turns on red are allowed, why on earth would someone just sit there and not do it?? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/36 "2007-10-07T07:58:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mark Ryle] Most times, no more vehicles will be making a left turn anyway now, since (at this particular intersection) the oncoming traffic flows unceasingly until the lights change to red again. But on the occasion when the light is still green, and there is a gap in the oncoming traffic, or there is no more oncoming traffic, it is certainly allowable to make a left turn, since we have a green light, albeit not the dedicated left-turn-arrow. What is the best course of action when I am the second or third, or fifth, car in this dedicated left-turning lane and the lead car refuses to make his or her left turn? [/QUOTE] I’d be on the horn. If you’re the second car, I’d regard it as a civic duty to awaken the driver in front. (Did exactly that to an unmarked police car, once, and saw him drop the radio he was busy with and grab the gearstick 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/37 "2007-10-07T08:02:24Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] But back to the US: If right turns on red are allowed, why on earth would someone just sit there and not do it?? [/QUOTE] It’s the driver’s responsibility to ensure it’s safe to do so (and I think I’m right in saying that in general, it’s supposed to only occur _after_ stopping at the light). There’s obvious reasons they would be wise to choose not to - a large vehicle to their left may obscure their view, as might traffic parked near the intersection. Some, it seems (including posters I’ve seen mention it here in the past), decide they never want to make this decision, however, and anybody behind them can just wait. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/38 "2007-10-07T08:06:57Z")
Okay, but I mean after you have stopped and no large vehicles are blocking your view and there’s no traffic coming etc, and you STILL won’t turn, that just beggars belief. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/39 "2007-10-07T08:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] Okay, but I mean after you have stopped and no large vehicles are blocking your view and there’s no traffic coming etc, and you STILL won’t turn, that just beggars belief. [/QUOTE] It might be just a small elderly minority who have never ‘got used’ to it, just like there’s Brits who still think in pre-decimal currency. What I will say that coming from Britain, making a turn on a red feels, well, just _wrong_, very very unnatural. More unnatural, even, than driving on the wrong side of the road. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760/40 "2007-10-07T08:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] More unnatural, even, than driving on the wrong side of the road. [/QUOTE] If it feels so unnatural, then why do you do it? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-right-turns-on-red-optional/421760.md?page=3)