# Are scalar weapons for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879 "2003-08-04T12:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/441 "2003-08-30T14:26:04Z")
As other posters have mentioned the history of death rays is incomplete. There are periods for which no records can be found. The notes for some projects seem to have been deliberately hidden or destroyed. Other areas suffer from records which while indivually verifiable, contradict eachother. The question of Dr Hobbes’ public appearances is the best known and documented of these. It has been suggested that some missing records are the result of industrial espionage. While this may at first seem ludicrous, such things do happen. When Intel was developing the Pentium, an employee was convicted for smuggling defective chips out of the building and selling them to a rival company. A corporate laboratory of the 20s would have had far more primitive surveilance and security systems. Another theory is that the United States government seized and sealed some records in the interest of national security. This is possible. However, it seems unlikely that the government would leave so much unclassified. Remember that the standard response to any question which even touches on a classified area is “I can neither confirm or deny that.”. ``` In 1983, a new theory emerged. After Buckminster Fuller died, his estate released a letter to the public. Fuller's opposition to death rays was well known. He had led numerous protests, boycotts, and campaigns for laws and treaties banning death rays. But, Fuller was never content to speak when he could act. His letter revealed that he had destroyed and altered records, schematics, and experimental data. "I have worked to make the world a better place to live in. I have worked to improve the standard of living. I showed the world that a factory designed to produce engines of war could instead make a new and better home. Yet, the world would not listen. So I began to take. I have done what I could to hold back the creation of new killing machines. I have judged the death ray to be the worst of the lot. Thus, it has been the focus of most of my efforts. I cannot take away your rifles, your tanks or your mines. I cannot even take away your atomic bombs. But, I can keep you from making a "better" death ray." ``` Experts still debate just which records Fuller destroyed or altered. Some argue that his interference was rather minor and that his claims are just an publicity stunt meant to draw attention to his anti-death ray views. Others insist that Fuller is almost solely responsible for the leck of accurate records. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/442 "2003-08-30T14:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by legion \* > \*\*Not only is there a thriving Death Ray industry, there is also a very active Death Ray pressure group, the National Death Ray Association. The NDRA is closely, if secretly, affiliated with the NRA. > > While the NRA are confident of, in this election year, a seemless transition of power from the out going President Charlton Heston, the NDRA are less than confident that a suitable new President can be found to replace the current President, Ming the Merciless. \*\* True. However, the NDRA tends to have nothing to do, largely because the only law ever passed dealing with death rays is the aforementioned Lindsay Act. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/443 "2003-08-30T14:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*As other posters have mentioned the history of death rays is incomplete. There are periods for which no records can be found. The notes for some projects seem to have been deliberately hidden or destroyed. Other areas suffer from records which while indivually verifiable, contradict eachother. The question of Dr Hobbes’ public appearances is the best known and documented of these. > > It has been suggested that some missing records are the result of industrial espionage. While this may at first seem ludicrous, such things do happen. When Intel was developing the Pentium, an employee was convicted for smuggling defective chips out of the building and selling them to a rival company. A corporate laboratory of the 20s would have had far more primitive surveilance and security systems. > > Another theory is that the United States government seized and sealed some records in the interest of national security. This is possible. However, it seems unlikely that the government would leave so much unclassified. Remember that the standard response to any question which even touches on a classified area is “I can neither confirm or deny that.”. > > ``` > In 1983, a new theory emerged. After Buckminster Fuller died, his estate released a letter to the public. Fuller's opposition to death rays was well known. He had led numerous protests, boycotts, and campaigns for laws and treaties banning death rays. But, Fuller was never content to speak when he could act. His letter revealed that he had destroyed and altered records, schematics, and experimental data. "I have worked to make the world a better place to live in. I have worked to improve the standard of living. I showed the world that a factory designed to produce engines of war could instead make a new and better home. Yet, the world would not listen. So I began to take. I have done what I could to hold back the creation of new killing machines. I have judged the death ray to be the worst of the lot. Thus, it has been the focus of most of my efforts. I cannot take away your rifles, your tanks or your mines. I cannot even take away your atomic bombs. But, I can keep you from making a "better" death ray." > > ``` > > Experts still debate just which records Fuller destroyed or altered. Some argue that his interference was rather minor and that his claims are just an publicity stunt meant to draw attention to his anti-death ray views. Others insist that Fuller is almost solely responsible for the leck of accurate records. \*\* Another good explanation for why so many records are missing relates to the frequent lack of records for the companies that went bust in the Depression. It is suspected that those companies either 1) threw out their records, or 2) gave their records away. This would explain (for example) why the records for Burman Death Rays, which closed down in 1931, were found in the posession of one of their former secretaries by Golden in 1984. A relative of industrial espionage is believed to be responsible for the loss of the Tucker Death Ray Corporation records. In November, 1960, Even McMurto copied some of the Tucker papers for use in his “Study on the Tucker Death Ray”. After doing this, he returned the papers to the Tucker estate. When he returned in February of 1962, all of the papers were gone. The item of interest is that, in June of 1961, all three principals in the death ray firm of B, C, & B are known to have paid a visit to where the Tucker records were stored. It is suspected (though none of them have ever admitted to it) that at least one of them, and, quite probably, all three took the papers, which included designs and notes on equipment, for use in producing their own death rays. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/444 "2003-08-30T14:54:34Z")
I was going to link to a photo of the invisible Brazilian Tucker Death Ray Carraige Vehicle, but that would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/445 "2003-08-30T16:07:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*I was going to link to a photo of the invisible Brazilian Tucker Death Ray Carraige Vehicle, but that would be silly. \*\* Good. There shall be no silliness in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/446 "2003-08-30T16:10:53Z")
**NoClueBoy** I wholeheartedly agree with your decision _not_ to link to that photo. As you said, it would be “rather silly” and I would not want this thread to degenerate into some kind of “fun house” for anyone to post his or her foolishness. This thread has been erudite, mature and incisive. I would hate to see it take a frivlolous direction. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/447 "2003-08-30T16:38:46Z")
Non! Eet wood be seelee beca-a-awse, no wan wood be abill to seet eet, yes? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/448 "2003-08-30T16:43:28Z")
Sorry. My cat got out of his box and started posting under my name. he has been dealt with Does anyone have an copy of Dr. Zhiv Ago’s ground breaking book _Things I learned About Building A Working Death Ray Machine_, published before 1937? The recent editions are mostly blank pages, suggesting some censoring has occured. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/449 "2003-08-30T17:15:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > \*\*I dunno, Gin and tequila ok (questionable without a chaser) But the kahlua would just ruin it. I think it would be really close to a 1920’s style death in a glass. THe point of this drink should be like a Vodka martini; a mule kick in the head yes. But a kick with style! Radial fins on the glass would also help. > > I propose blue tequila 1 oz. 1 1/2oz shaphire gin with 1 oz sprite. mix with ice and shake with twits of limon and lime > > I would like to find a way to sneek at least one other liqour of no less then 80 proof in there, perhaps some grey goose, or vermouth but I think the mixture might be off. Thank god it’s friday and we can get to bar…er lab > > Frixx you can’t bail on us now!! True the Death Ray has been banned, but it’s spirt can live on in bars everywhere. Think about it, we can make a drink and go to our favorite bars and order it, appearing heros to the rubes, while secrealy knowing the SDMB rules all through our subverseve meathods \*\* I dunno, I think that the following would be more like a Death Ray: 3 shots of Bacardi 151 6 oz. of Jolt Cola (assuming they still make it) 1/2 tsp. of cayenne pepper. That’ll blast right through ya! ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/450 "2003-08-30T17:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\* > The recent editions are mostly blank pages, suggesting some censoring has occured. \*\* I have a 1924 edition, probably the first English translation. Sadly, most of what was deleted in later editions was nothing more than gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/451 "2003-08-30T18:34:47Z")
I’ve always loved Dr. Ago’s anecdote about his boyhood when his mother was always hollering at him, “Put down that Death Ray, dammit. You’re gonna put somebody’s eye out with that thing!” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/452 "2003-08-30T18:48:25Z")
Hey! I just checked, and you _can_ still get [Jolt Cola!](http://www.wetplanet.com/jolt/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/453 "2003-08-30T19:06:49Z")
BTW, **Tuckerfan** , catch any mistakes in my post on the fate of the Tucker Death Ray papers? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/454 "2003-08-30T19:27:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Governor Quinn \* > \*\*BTW, **Tuckerfan** , catch any mistakes in my post on the fate of the Tucker Death Ray papers? \*\* A couple of minor omissions, I think. It’s not just the death ray files which are missing from the historical record of the Tucker Corporation, _much_ of the documentation of everything the company _ever_ did has gone AWOL! Including, the court records from fraud trial Preston Tucker successfully won in the 1950s. These, ironically enough, were stored in the Chicago branch of the National Archives, which is located _in the very plant where Tucker built his cars!_ So, I think that from this, one can readily confirm **Doc** ’s statement about Bucky Fuller actively destroying documents related to death rays. Supposedly, copies of the documents _do_ exist, and have been offered for sale, but I’ve never ran across them in my years of searching. I know that the Tucker Club has attempted to recreate the drawings, but I doubt if they’re completely accurate. In all seriousness, a couple of years ago, I commissioned one of the designers of the original Tucker 48 to come up with some drawings of what a modern Tucker might look like. If anyone’s interested, I’ll be more than happy to e-mail 'em to you. Or if anyone would like to volunteer some webspace to host the drawings, that would be cool too. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/455 "2003-08-30T19:57:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Governor Quinn \* > \*\*I have a 1924 edition, probably the first English translation. > > Sadly, most of what was deleted in later editions was nothing more than gibberish. \*\* There is clear explanation for this. First; His work was written in clear Japanese by a team of technical writers and product engineers. Then it was transmitted overseas via telegraph to an anonymous Danish country where it is then translated to Danish. Next it was translated by a non-Danish speaker to another non-Danish speaker over payphones at the train station. This so called “Basic operating text” was then translated into any other disired languages by students at a language school in some random third world country. Final version was checked for incomprehensibility by various editors. Gibberish. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/456 "2003-08-30T20:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > **Supposedly, copies of the documents _do_ exist, and have been offered for sale, but I’ve never ran across them in my years of searching.** A few years ago, I spent a substantial sum at Sotheby’s acquiring a portfolio of what had been described as rare documents in this vein. Upon perusal, however, it became quickly apparent that these were as phony as the numerous volumes circulating under the name of Lovecraft’s Mad Arab. In other words, I was duped into purchasing what is derisively labelled by collectors a “Deathraynomicon.” Naturally, this was shortly after the “Hitler’s Diaries” fiasco, so the auction was festooned with caveats about “no guarantee of authenticity” and “purchase at your own risk.” I should have known better, but the possibility of actually putting my hands on such a portfolio clouded my judgement. :mad: Anyway, as a result of my experience, I have to believe that despite the persistent rumors, these documents have been lost permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/457 "2003-08-30T20:48:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*A few years ago, I spent a substantial sum at Sotheby’s acquiring a portfolio of what had been described as rare documents in this vein. Upon perusal, however, it became quickly apparent that these were as phony as the numerous volumes circulating under the name of Lovecraft’s Mad Arab. In other words, I was duped into purchasing what is derisively labelled by collectors a “Deathraynomicon.” Naturally, this was shortly after the “Hitler’s Diaries” fiasco, so the auction was festooned with caveats about “no guarantee of authenticity” and “purchase at your own risk.” I should have known better, but the possibility of actually putting my hands on such a portfolio clouded my judgement. :mad: > > Anyway, as a result of my experience, I have to believe that despite the persistent rumors, these documents have been lost permanently. \*\* **Cervaise** , any idea of who did the fakes? If it was Joaquin Martinez Miro, you’ll regret not keeping them. Collectors are going nuts over his work right now, because it _is_ so insanely bad. Whilst I doubt you could have recouped your losses, you might have at least been able to get back a chunk of the change you spent on them. ---
**Author:** ![klockwerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/klockwerk/32/6475_2.png) [@klockwerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/klockwerk)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/458 "2003-08-30T21:02:05Z")
Has anyone managed to connect their 1920’s style death ray to their invisible pink unicorn? Would such a thing be possible? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/459 "2003-08-30T21:15:41Z")
**Tuckerfan** The artist to whom you referred ( **Joaquin Martinez Miro** ) is probably best known for his work “chiens jouant aux cartes”. Critics have called this work “deliciously bad” and “outrageously hopeless”. The only other work that could even rival this was his “chiens jouant des billards” which was similarly received with snickers and muffled laughter. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879/460 "2003-08-30T21:31:54Z")
[Stewie] Damn the death-rays and damn the thread and damn you! [/Stewie] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-scalar-weapons-for-real/192879.md?page=24)