# Are silent Ts becoming more prevalent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988 "2023-04-01T15:26:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/1 "2023-04-01T15:26:40Z")
Or am I just now noticing it? Words like “kitten” and “bitten” get the treatment. Here’s a good example from Steve Schmidt: [TRUMP ARRESTED? Steve Schmidt explains what comes next after Donald Trump's indictment | The Warning - YouTube](https://youtu.be/5FCP2KXSXhQ?t=460) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/2 "2023-04-01T15:40:37Z")
I’ve noticed that as well over the last few years. I’d heard it in the past with certain British accents but it’s new in the US, at least to my ears. I think it’s called a glottal stop. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/3 "2023-04-01T16:14:27Z")
I didn’t notice this becoming widespread, but it’s very common in the mid-Atlantic dialect (think Philly). It’s called a glottal stop. In Philly, “cotton” has no Ts in it—just a kind of grunt in the middle. We don’t find it odd (we don’t notice it at all). Steve Schmidt was raised in Jersey, so that explains his. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/4 "2023-04-01T16:25:09Z")
As long as they don’t start striking back, I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/5 "2023-04-01T16:29:22Z")
I think it’s pretty common here in the Midwestern US, too. People don’t generally pronounce “kitten” as “KIT-tn”, it’s more like “Kih-nn” (probably the glottal stop noted by Stratocaster). ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/6 "2023-04-01T16:43:30Z")
Back where I was born it was always a thing. When people were parodying the accents of my home area they would write things such as… “there’s trouble at t’mill” which was never what I heard in real life. the “t’mill” had no audible “t” in there, it was a very slight pause rather than anything voiced. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/7 "2023-04-01T17:04:55Z")
> **[T-glottalization](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-glottalization)** > > In English phonology, t-glottalization or t-glottalling is a sound change in certain English dialects and accents, particularly in the United Kingdom, that causes the phoneme /t/ to be pronounced as the glottal stop \[ʔ\] (listen) in certain positions. It is never universal, especially in careful speech, and it most often alternates with other allophones of /t/ such as \[t\] (help·info), \[tʰ\], \[tⁿ\] (before a nasal), \[tˡ\] (before a lateral), or \[ɾ\]. > As a sound change, it is a subtype of debuccalizati... ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/8 "2023-04-01T17:06:48Z")
For some reason, it doesn’t bother me when I hear a Brit, but it annoys the ever loving heck out of me when I hear an American. ---
**Author:** ![Dancer\_Flight](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dancer_flight/32/7601_2.png) [@Dancer\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancer_Flight)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/9 "2023-04-01T18:01:39Z")
As a native west coast Canadian, I associate it with easterners and more specifically east coasters. My most regular exposure to the phenomenon is a tic I notice with Steve from the YouTube channel Acorn to Arabella, based in Massachusetts. I find his pronunciation of “ba’en” (batten) or “impor’ant” mildly grating. He does pronounce battery with a standard middle “T” though. I’ve had a decade of living in Toronto “Trawna” about fifteen years back, so I’m little more relaxed about regional variances. The Channel: [One Minute About Acorn to Arabella: Journey of a Wooden Boat - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD1tcQpvBMc) Electrical Systems Vid - note “important” at 1:34 & “Battery” at 2:13: [Boat Electrical Systems, First Steps - Episode 194 - Acorn to Arabella: Journey of a Wooden Boat - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDzY2KKEPYE&t=93s) (vid queued to 1:33). -DF I would’ve embedded the vids, but apparently some of us can’t right now … [Have links to YouTube been disabled?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-links-to-youtube-been-disabled/981958/1) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/10 "2023-04-01T18:08:03Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > For some reason, it doesn’t bother me when I hear a Brit, but it annoys the ever loving heck out of me when I hear an American. We in Philly came by it honestly, don’t be a hater. 😊 FWIW, I have read where this is actually a more difficult sound to formulate that a straight-up t. So in reality, we glottal stoppers are much more ambitious and hard-working, and by extension, more virtuous. Science! ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/11 "2023-04-01T18:15:55Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > We in Philly came by it honestly, don’t be a hater. O.k. I’ll give you an exception, too! ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/12 "2023-04-02T01:23:23Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > We in Philly came by it honestly, don’t be a hater. Right on! That’s my accent too. What is curious is that the only difference between latter and ladder is that the latter has a slightly longer a sound. This is especially curious since ordinarily English speakers pay no attention to vowel length. Yet my wife readily distinguishes the two words when I speak them. Another pair like that are writer and rider, where the latter has a slightly longer vowel. But both the t and d are replaced, not by glottal stops, but by near tongue taps on the roof of the mouth. The tongue heads towards the roof of the mouth but doesn’t quite make it. Nothing like a glottal stop. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/13 "2023-04-02T01:31:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > latter and ladder Challenge: when would you have ever used those words, latter and ladder, where she wouldn’t guess the word by context? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/14 "2023-04-02T01:35:55Z")
Between the ladder and the step stool, I prefer the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/15 "2023-04-02T02:33:12Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Right on! That’s my accent too. What is curious is that the only difference between latter and ladder is that the latter has a slightly longer a sound. This is especially curious since ordinarily English speakers pay no attention to vowel length. Yet my wife readily distinguishes the two words when I speak them. Another pair like that are writer and rider, where the latter has a slightly longer vowel. But both the t and d are replaced, not by glottal stops, but by near tongue taps on the roof of the mouth. The tongue heads towards the roof of the mouth but doesn’t quite make it. Nothing like a glottal stop. Right on is right, brother! And as long as we’re discussing Philly pronunciation idiosyncrasies, here’s two more: Soft Ls. In the same article I mentioned they tested this by going into local Foot Lockers and asking for help finding “New Bounce” sneakers (as opposed to New Balance, the proper name). No one batted an eye or expressed any confusion. And here’s an extremely unusual one: Philadelphians pronounce the same soft vowel differently, depending upon the word. So “sad” doesn’t rhyme with “bad,” and “dog” doesn’t rhyme with “frog.” Heck, “can” doesn’t even rhyme with “can.” “I can do it” versus “Toss it in the trash can.” Those cans don’t rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/16 "2023-04-02T02:57:45Z")
I glottalize my Ts before syllabic N. But it doesn’t sound quite like the UK accents, where you get a very harsh glottal stop and a a clear vowel. Button sounds like buh–nnn, not buh–INN. The reason I think it happens because T and N have the tongue in the same position, and it allows the sound to stop without having to move the tongue between those sounds. And, honestly, it sounds almost the same if I do go ahead an pronounce a soft T there. (Again, not like the stereotypical Cockney version which is very obvious.) In short, I don’t fully glottalize my Ts before N. Just partially. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/17 "2023-04-02T03:08:26Z")
I’ve always said the two words in the OP with a glottal stop unless I’m specifically enunciating those "t"s for a reason. It’s nothing new, in my experience. I wouldn’t glottal stop a word like “bottle,” though. In American English, it is pretty common to glottalize before an /n/ syllable. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/18 "2023-04-02T03:17:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve always said the two words in the OP with a glottal stop unless I’m specifically enunciating those "t"s for a reason. It’s nothing new, in my experience. Ditto, native Chicagoan living on the west coast for 40+ years. Oddly, one daughter uses the glottal stop, and one doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/19 "2023-04-03T00:38:16Z")
It just occurred to me that I’ve always silenced the first t in internet, and that it sounds wrong when there’s a professional voice guy in commercials that pronounces it correctly. Innernet just rolls off the tongue better. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988/20 "2023-04-03T13:58:52Z")
> [@Dancer\_Flight](#): > > I’ve had a decade of living in Toronto “Trawna” about fifteen years back, so I’m little more relaxed about regional variances. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > FWIW, I have read where this is actually a more difficult sound to formulate that a straight-up t. That’s what I thought listening to that youtube video. It sounded like he was really struggling to get that word out. This is different from the “Toronto-“Trawna”” issue, because “trawna” actually cuts out a full syllable, and flows easier. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-silent-ts-becoming-more-prevalent/981988.md?page=2)