# Are skeptics ever right in popular entertainment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630 "2013-02-07T20:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/41 "2013-02-08T18:54:23Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Anyway, for the purposes of this discussion, one funny thing I noticed was that even though she was essentially always right - was always helping to solve crimes, and even though they had her officially involved as a consultant or whatever her role was, pretty much every episode and every new case she was met with skepticism. IIRC, even her handler person doubted her every time. I find this annoying for another reason. Let’s assume, for the moment, that the setting is low urban fantasy, such that whatever psychic powers the character claimed actually work, but are incredibly rare. (If they were common, it’s unlikely that we’d find a skeptic involved in investigations–it would be like having a detective who doesn’t believe in fingerprints.) An actual skeptic, upon seeing regular, consistent evidence that the abilities are real, would not continue to disbelieve. Skeptics aren’t skeptical out of some odd faith in the nonexistence of something–they’re skeptical because they have seen no reliable evidence that that something exists. After watching someone achieve (presumably on a weekly basis) feats that the skeptic has no ready explanation for, but which could plausible be explained by the abilities the psychic claims, the skeptic should be calling for laboratory study of the abilities. If they can confirm the abilities in the lab, they may be able to figure out how they work–the first step to duplicating the results as a regular investigative tool, rather than relying on an incredibly rare genetic quirk (or whatever). At the very least, they should come around to an “I don’t know how it works, but it works” stance fairly quickly. Treating it the way you describe establishes a false equivalence between the skeptics and the woo believers: that both operate on faith. In essence, it attributes a magical worldview to the skeptics. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear from the book that Hermione doesn’t believe in fortune telling at all. She also thinks Trelawey is a fraud, but that’s not the only operative factor. I would suggest that while she doesn’t believe in fortune-telling, she doesn’t necessarily disbelieve in prophecy. Hermione’s views on divination are initially shaped largely by McGonagall, who told her that > [@Minerva McGonagall](#): > > Divination is one of the most imprecise branches of magic. I shall not conceal from you that I have very little patience with it. True Seers are very rare… “Rare”, not “nonexistent”, and I don’t think Hermione particularly doubts her on that part. I don’t recall any major fuss from her about disbelieving the prophecy about Harry later on, for instance. She clearly doesn’t believe in the tea-leaves-and-crystal-balls brand of divination, but that doesn’t mean she disbelieves all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/42 "2013-02-08T19:07:33Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > Of course, that would be irrational as a later episode showed the psychic to be real, which raised the question of why she wasn’t strapped to a chair in the police station like the Pre-Cogs in _Minority Report_. > > (Can you tell this is one of my bugbears?) It bugs me just as much. Excellent idea of tying her to a chair in the police station - they had ways of making people spill in those days. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/43 "2013-02-08T19:25:12Z")
I don’t watch that much television, but it seems to me the ‘woo’ hardlly ever wins in reality-based TV (not “reality TV”). The only place ‘woo’ does win, is where you expect to , ie., a ghost movie. I would indeed be surprise if a movie premised on the existence of ghosts showed they did not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/44 "2013-02-08T19:26:10Z")
Another example of the skeptics winning out on _The Simpsons_ is “The Springfield Files”, guesting Mulder and Scully, who investigate a reported alien sighting. The supposed “alien” is actually Mr. Burns with dilated pupils, one of the creepiest things I’ve ever seen. Actually, the _Number_s episodes about the psychic, “Mind Games” and “Trouble in Chinatown” are not entirely “wins” for the skeptics. They leave an element of “belief” at the end. Better pro-skeptics episodes are “Noisy Edge” and “Dreamland”, in which UFO’s are shown to have terrestrial explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/45 "2013-02-08T19:30:56Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > So, Wu debunked woo? > > Sorry. Someone had to say it! Unfortunately, his last name was Huang… 🙂 > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > When COLUMBO came back in '89, his first case involved the phony psychic who (a) was about to start a lucrative job with the conned Pentagon officers who thought the guy could help with the Cold War, and who (b) murdered the Amazing-Randi-esque stage magician who knew enough to debunk him. Actually, the magician was _helping_ him in the scam, out of guilt for actions he took when the two were imprisoned overseas (the same actions that provided the motive for the murder). (Boy, is this TV correction day for me today…?) ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/46 "2013-02-08T19:33:44Z")
Or as noted above shows like “Medium” where, apparently to the surprise of a poster who says:" kind of like validating woo over skepticism repeatedly was part of the point of the show. ", the point of the show was to validate woo over skepticism as it was based on the claimed experiences of a woman who claimed to be a medium. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/47 "2013-02-08T19:36:39Z")
Back when sitcoms were morality plays, the supposed paranormal that turned out to be perfectly natural was almost a trope. On _ **The Brady Bunch** _, the fake UFO perpetrated by the boys on the girls (we’re told the story from both points of view, so there’s never any question it’s not real, but I think it still counts). On the _ **Courtship of Eddie’s Father** _, Brandon’s fear of a ghost is shown to be nothing - just the moon making weird images on the wall. On _ **The Andy Griffith Show** _, Barney encountered a house with things going on “beyond the ken of man!” that turned out to be a fake haunting hiding a still. _ **Different Strokes** _ investigated a “haunted house,” as did _ **Hangin’ with Mr. Cooper** _. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/48 "2013-02-08T19:43:38Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Too big of a bone was thrown towards woo, when Marge gets the last word, stating that Lisa was squeezing her hand pretty hard when the angel appeared. Yeah, I was really pissed off at that… ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/49 "2013-02-08T20:13:10Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > There was an episode of Night Court where Bull thought he was hearing G-d tell him to do stuff, and it turned out to be Art the Handyman stuck in the air vents. > > On the other hand, there have been countless episodes of Night Court where the “woo” clearly wins. Woo won in that episode too.IIRC Bull is on the roof helping Art the handyman with some cable. Bull is struck by lightning and has an NDE. He hears G-d tell him “Give to the poor, and ye shall have treasures in Heaven.” Bull wakes up with burnt underwear and a mission. He gives away all his money and worldly possessions. Then (I think it’s Judge Stone) who has been skeptical this whole time discovers that while Bull was unconcsious, Arty shouted through a duct “Give me some more, and yell when it measures eleven.” Bull decided he hasn’t had an NDE. But, is still glad he has done good. Then, a lottery ticket he forgot he had comes up for the exact value of what he’s given away. Bull says ‘Thanks, G-d’ and everybody leaves the courtroom. Mac walks in and looks at his terminal. He reads the screen aloud “You’re welcome. And sorry about the underwear.” So, in that episode G-d is very real and at work in Night Court. A better choice would be the one where they put Death in a holding cell. A newspaper predicts Dan Fielding’s death and list several unusual circumstances. A man jumps off the Empire State Building and walks away without a scratch. Death mentions to Harry that he knew when Harry had rheumatic fever and nearly died that it wasn’t his time yet. Harry reveals that he did indeed almost die of rheumatic fever when he was twelve. Other characters begin to believe that they really do have Death captive and if they release him, Dan will die. Harry discovers the true identity of the man in the holding cell. He’s a doctor who lost a young patient and had a psychotic break. As a doctor, he could tell from Harry’s complexion that he’d had rheumatic fever. The newspaper predicting Dan’s death was a prank played by Rozz. Back To The OP What about Doctor Who? I can’t recall the name of the episode (I think it was Mask Of The Mandraggora) wherein the Doctor (Tom Baker) goes back to the 1400’s in Italy. He tells the court psychic that he’s full of it and announces that he’s a doctor and astronomer. The psychic asks him something about what it means when Mercury is in retrograde. ‘That depends.’ ‘On what?’ ‘Whether the cock crows thrice, the wolfsbane blooms, or all sorts of other quackery.’ There are numerous DW episodes where a ghost or somesuch is revealed to have a ‘scientifc’ explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/50 "2013-02-08T20:58:24Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > There are a few Sherlock Holmes stories, most notably “The Hound of the Baskervilles” where Holmes doesn’t accept a supernatural explanation for something and is proved right. And this is despite the fact that Conan Doyle was heavily involved in spiritualism. ---
**Author:** ![Renifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Renifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renifer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/51 "2013-02-09T01:18:35Z")
_The Office_, through Jim’s pranks on Dwight. Examples include Dwight receiving memos from “Future Dwight” and Jim pretending to be bitten by a vampire bat. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/52 "2013-02-09T02:26:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The psychic had predicted (may be wrong on the details, I was only half watching, but I’ve seen things play out this way a hundred times so substitute your own show/movie) that at the ren faire she’d meet a boy, and that a horse was involved. We’re supposed to dismiss this as a standard cold reading fictitious prediction (after all, the ren faire was made up), but later in the episode, the girl goes to another event (not the ren faire) and meets a boy who has a picture of a horse on his shirt. Yeah, I can cross this show off my list now. I haven’t seen an episode of The Mentalist which actually supported woo. The one mentioned merely suggests to me that somebody got to Jane where it hurt him – his family, and his own history of using other people’s pain to make money – not that it made him credulous. But I’m a little behind, so there may be a weakening of the premise. In fact, I suspect such a sell-out is inevitable. Same for House, which has flirted with sell-out before, and Psyche for which I suspect the writers wouldn’t consider it more than a throw-away gag. The episode of Numb3rs I recall had a sell-out moment right at the end with a picture mysteriously falling off the wall, which was similar to the sell-out at the end of the aforementioned South Park episode. TV writers just can’t help themselves, it seems. And, I still hold a grudge against Jay Leno for bringing Uri Gellar on his show, a tragic break from the precedent set by Johnny Carson who helped Randy make a fool of Gellar when he was running the show. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/53 "2013-02-09T03:50:53Z")
Does _Psych_ count? People who doubt Shawn’s ability to solve a crime are proven wrong again and again, but the whole premise of the show is that he does it using his highly trained powers of observation and does not possess any psychic powers at all. In early episodes of _Frasier_ Daphne claimed to be psychic, but this was phased out of the show. I do remember one episode where Niles wanted to prove she wasn’t psychic but learned that Daphne had gotten the idea she had psychic powers from her grandmother and she had some touching story that made it clear this was something her granny had made up to cheer young Daphne when she was feeling really down about something. Niles decided not to destroy Daphne’s belief, but IIRC it was clear that he was factually correct and that Daphne wasn’t really psychic. > [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Another example of the skeptics winning out on _The Simpsons_ is “The Springfield Files”, guesting Mulder and Scully, who investigate a reported alien sighting. Thinking of _The X-Files_, I feel that there were maybe a couple of episodes where Scully was actually right in the end…but maybe that’s just the way I wish it had been. I liked _The X-Files_ well enough (until it got too bogged down with the “Myth Arc” episodes), but it kind of bothered me that for once the cool, intellectual, skeptical character was a woman but she was on a show where the skeptical character always had to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/54 "2013-02-09T03:58:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > In early episodes of _Frasier_ Daphne claimed to be psychic, but this was phased out of the show. I do remember one episode where Niles wanted to prove she wasn’t psychic but learned that Daphne had gotten the idea she had psychic powers from her grandmother and she had some touching story that made it clear this was something her granny had made up to cheer young Daphne when she was feeling really down about something. Niles decided not to destroy Daphne’s belief, but IIRC it was clear that he was factually correct and that Daphne wasn’t really psychic. I don’t think you recall correctly. I remember the episode where a parapsychologist comes in and does a bunch of tests on Daphne. But, Niles decides not to hear the results. We never find out if Daphne showed nothing special or if she guessed every card right. Previous episodes had indicated that Daphne may have really been psychic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/55 "2013-02-09T04:07:29Z")
> [@Renifer](#): > > _The Office_, through Jim’s pranks on Dwight. Examples include Dwight receiving memos from “Future Dwight” and Jim pretending to be bitten by a vampire bat. “I don’t care what Jim says; that is not the real Ben Franklin. I’m 99% sure.” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/56 "2013-02-09T04:16:36Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > …In the Star Trek TNG episode “Devil’s Due,” a con artist pretends to be some planet’s version of the devil by pretending scientific processes are examples of her magical powers. Picard is skeptical, and he is proved right by the episode’s end… Several episodes of TOS had the inhabitants of the planet-of-the-week worshiping “Gods” that turned out to be computers or space aliens. It’s not surprising given that Gene Roddenberry was agnostic and a big part of Star Trek was that humanity had outgrown such silly supersitions. And let’s not forget Stargate where the Goa’uld impersonated deities from almost every Earth religion/mythology. Including _Satan_. > [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > …I’ve had to stop talking about some things in real life. Just the other day at lunch we were talking about the flu shot and vaccinations and one guy said he didn’t go it because he didn’t want to get sick. He also said he didn’t think vaccinations worked and were harmful because a friend’s kid had died after one. People wonder why I don’t talk much. I remember a coworker didn’t quite believe in the antivaxer crap, but insisted that it wasn’t worth taking a risk over. Especially since if all of the other kids are vaccinated her kids wouldn’t have to worry about outbreaks. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/57 "2013-02-09T04:16:49Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I don’t think you recall correctly. I remember the episode where a parapsychologist comes in and does a bunch of tests on Daphne. But, Niles decides not to hear the results. We never find out if Daphne showed nothing special or if she guessed every card right. Previous episodes had indicated that Daphne may have really been psychic. You may be right that Niles decided not to hear the results, but I’m fairly certain that Daphne told a story about how her grandmother had been the one to tell her that the women in their family tended to have second sight and that this was pretty clearly a white lie granny had told her to make her feel better about getting picked on by her brothers or something like that. If Daphne had actually been psychic, she might have picked up on Niles’s crush on her rather than remaining oblivious for years. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/58 "2013-02-09T04:32:16Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Thinking of _The X-Files_, I feel that there were maybe a couple of episodes where Scully was actually right in the end…but maybe that’s just the way I wish it had been. I liked _The X-Files_ well enough (until it got too bogged down with the “Myth Arc” episodes), but it kind of bothered me that for once the cool, intellectual, skeptical character was a woman but she was on a show where the skeptical character always had to be wrong. Actually the X-Files was rather evenhanded a lot of the time. Quite often both Mulder and Scully were wrong; and I can recall an episode or two where Mulder’s True Believer worldview was actively used to manipulate him. Being the kind of show it was, usually what was actually happening was really weird; but very often Mulder would go off on some paranormal/mythic/pseudoscientific tangent that had nothing to do with what turned out to be the truth. Basically, Mulder was a wacko in a wacky world, demonstrating that even if the monsters really are out there, that doesn’t mean they are the monsters you think they are. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/59 "2013-02-09T05:34:48Z")
> [@Osiris\_the\_1st](#): > > And this is despite the fact that Conan Doyle was heavily involved in spiritualism. I seem to recall the later Holmes stories containing veiled references to “untold” cases that Holmes was unable to solve, presumably because of some kind of supernatural forces. I remember Watson mentioning one case concerning a man who stepped back into his house to retrieve an umbrella, and was never seen again. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630/60 "2013-02-09T15:48:48Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Actually, the magician was _helping_ him in the scam, out of guilt for actions he took when the two were imprisoned overseas (the same actions that provided the motive for the murder). > > (Boy, is this TV correction day for me today…?) Not at all! I mystically foresaw your clumsy attempts, and took care to foil them by phrasing each proclamation so that it would be completely accurate! I must rest now; such feats place quite a strain on my supernatural talents, unless I have the full faith of my audience, as ritually symbolized by token gifts . . . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-skeptics-ever-right-in-popular-entertainment/649630.md?page=4)