# Are SLBM targets preset, or is a missile sub capable of targeting them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253 "2003-11-04T01:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/1 "2003-11-04T01:36:10Z")
…It just kind of occurred to me that a ballistic missile submarine’s launch orders would come over an ELF radio system, which might make it a little hard to program 100+ MIRVs with their own target coordinates, in the frenzied first few minutes of a nuclear war. Do missile boats just have a limited number of pre-plotted “attack plans” (say, Plan A for nuking Russia, Plan B for nuking China, etc.) with all the necessary targeting coordinates, or can they carry out orders to attack any spot on the globe without much warning…say, somewhere really out of the way, like McMurdo Station in Antarctica? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/2 "2003-11-04T03:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > **…It just kind of occurred to me that a ballistic missile submarine’s launch orders would come over an ELF radio system, which might make it a little hard to program 100+ MIRVs with their own target coordinates, in the frenzied first few minutes of a nuclear war.** Umm , I believe that the ELF signals the boat to come to the surface, then it downloads the awaiting orders. > [@](#): > > \*\*Do missile boats just have a limited number of pre-plotted “attack plans” (say, Plan A for nuking Russia, Plan B for nuking China, etc.) with all the necessary targeting coordinates, or can they carry out orders to attack any spot on the globe without much warning…say, somewhere really out of the way, like McMurdo Station in Antarctica? \*\* They would have to , depending on the SIOP. The Trident D-5 is one of the first SLBM’s to be able to hit hardened targets , like missile silos, rather than the old poseidens and polaris missiles ,which were city busters. The old soviet typhoon missile subs were able to fire and hit targets right from their docks , so as long as the target is in range, an ohio can kill it. But McMurdo just screams for a cruise missile attack, rather than an overkill SLBM Declan ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/3 "2003-11-04T03:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Declan \* > I believe that the ELF signals the boat to come to the surface, then it downloads the awaiting orders. I gotta say that this sounds a trifle dubious - bring your nuclear subs into a highly vulnerable position shortly before they are to launch missiles? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/4 "2003-11-04T03:53:51Z")
Yup. [http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm) > [@](#): > > This unique communication system is designed to transmit short alerting messages to submarines operating far below the ocean surface. The ELF frequencies used, in the 40–80 Hz range, were selected for their long range signal propagation (i.e., global) and ability to penetrate seawater to depths several hundred feet below the surface. In addition to the inherent covertness this communication system provides, it also provides the submarine Commanding Officer with operational flexibility to remain at required mission depth and speed. The ELF communication system is used as a “bellringer” to notify the submarine crew to come shallow to copy a higher data rate broadcast (e.g., SSIXS). At present, POM funding is provided for two site ELF operation. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/5 "2003-11-04T04:00:14Z")
ELF transmissions are _slow_. You could be quite a while receiving your attack message using only the ELF, while, presumably, nukes are popping off all over the country, including atop those places what might be transmitting that very same attack message. Not a high-success scenario. Instead, if the boat’s skipper has done his job, he’s off someplace unexpected and undetected. Coming shallow and sticking up an antenna is pretty low-risk under these conditions. If no one knows you’re there, no one can capitalize on the _small_ chance of spotting the antenna. Message received in short order, and shortly, missiles are on their way. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/6 "2003-11-04T04:07:48Z")
Coming “shallow” I can understand. It was coming to the surface that seemed a puzzling strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/7 "2003-11-04T04:30:48Z")
“Shallow” and “surface” are sometimes used interchangable, if sometimes imprecisely. What _specifically_ would happen is, once notified of incoming flash traffic, the boat would come to periscope depth and run-up an antenna. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-slbm-targets-preset-or-is-a-missile-sub-capable-of-targeting-them/211253/8 "2003-11-04T05:00:23Z")
Makes sense. I was thinking in terms of a submarine bobbing on the surface,