# Are social media's recent bannings a freedom of expression issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330 "2021-01-12T14:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/21 "2021-01-12T17:44:38Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Perhaps, but it is amazingly simple to ignore both Facebook and Twitter. People who do find value in those services can continue to share family photos and lunch recipes If the companies want to restrict political discussions, we have a robust site right here on SDMB to debate the issues of the day. It’s the fact that as @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness said, such a significant portion of public discourse is happening on these platforms that makes it a problem. If they banned _all_ political discussions, then they would cease to have this monopoly power. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/22 "2021-01-12T17:51:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Facebook is a pretty important tool for reaching people that are otherwise much harder to reach. I’m sure there is some utility for Facebook. However, we muddled through before Facebook, and we can muddle through now without it. If we could organize people in the 1050s, we can do so now. And the technological options are numerous. Emails, web portals, messaging, chat rooms, and god knows what else. I was told years ago that our firm simply must have a facebook and linkedin presence. We don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/23 "2021-01-12T17:53:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > a significant portion of public discourse is happening on these platforms I have seen what passes for “public discourse” on Twitter. I think we’d be fine if that just stopped. I assume Facebook is the same or worse. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/24 "2021-01-12T17:55:59Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sure there is some utility for Facebook. However, we muddled through before Facebook, and we can muddle through now without it. If we could organize people in the **1050s** , we can do so now. And the technological options are numerous. Emails, web portals, messaging, chat rooms, and god knows what else. I was told years ago that our firm simply must have a facebook and linkedin presence. We don’t. Showing your age there, lol. People managed without computers in the 50s, too; that doesn’t mean it’s feasible now. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/25 "2021-01-12T17:57:39Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Showing your age there, lol. People managed without computers in the 50s, too; that doesn’t mean it’s feasible now.- Ha. Sorry about that. I agree it’s not feasible to function without the internet and computers. I am not convinced we can’t get by without Twitter and Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/26 "2021-01-12T17:58:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > However, we muddled through before Facebook, and we can muddle through now without it. What other technologies could you substitute in that sentence for “Facebook,” and is that an argument for ignoring monopolistic tendencies in those technological industries? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/27 "2021-01-12T18:00:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What other technologies could you substitute in that sentence for “Facebook,” and is that an argument for ignoring monopolistic tendencies in those technological industries? What _can_ we do about big tech monopolies, though? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/28 "2021-01-12T18:04:01Z")
What we really need to deal with is the monopoly power MySpace and GeoCities hold these days. ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/29 "2021-01-12T18:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not a freedom of expression issue. You are not allowed to post hate on a wall, or skywrite it, or put it on the internet. (You can get away with it, because social media typically refuse to moderate content, but it’s illegal.) I believe it important to specifically point out one issue which **Kimera757** got incorrect, though no disrespect is intended. Posting “hate speech” is legal in the United States even if it is morally wrong, and many other countries take roughly the same view or forbid only specific speech. Posting specific exhortations, instructions, or direction to commit violence generally would not be (though for the record _I Am Not a Lawyer, not a Constitutional Scholar_). Posting hatred is morally incorrect, and private companies which host platforms are **not** obligated to allow someone to continue doing so, and additionally they may set different boundaries from one another. The 1st Amendment, both in the plain text and in how it has been applied by the courts, very strictly blocks the U.S. government from imposing controls on what views may or may not be expressed publicly under punishment of the law. There are some restrictions which have been allowed historically - but not very many. The reason it is not a freedom of expression issue is as described by others in this thread. Edit: Why does the quote function no longer work, or is there a thread explaining it somewhere? Modnote: it does work, not sure why it was so screwy in this case, but mostly fixed it for you. What Exit? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/30 "2021-01-12T18:17:25Z")
Get by, sure; however, the enormous and, more importantly, enduring popularity of social media shows it isn’t going away anytime soon. Social media is bigger than the companies involved. So, we need to figure out how social media can be used predominantly for social good (nothing will ever be perfect, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try). ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/31 "2021-01-12T18:22:59Z")
> [@smilingbandit](#): > > Edit: Why does the quote function no longer work, or is there a thread explaining it somewhere? The quote tags need to be on their own lines. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/32 "2021-01-12T19:12:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If they start banning legit arguments or legit viewpoints, who could do a thing to stop them? Nobody. Just like nobody stops the restaurant from taking down my flyers from their bulletin board, and nobody makes the radio station air my call, and nobody makes the newspaper publish my op-ed. It’s their property/business, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/33 "2021-01-12T19:24:04Z")
Interestingly, at least some attorneys with the ACLU agree that there are troubling implications for the marketplace of ideas: [MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/aclu-counsel-warns-of-unchecked-power-of-twitter-facebook-after-trump-suspension/ar-BB1cC029)? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/34 "2021-01-12T19:31:46Z")
Twitter should be more consistent, but I think they were right to ban advocates of violence like Trump. They probably should have done it long ago, since he’s been pretty consistently advocating violence for years. I think there is reasonable criticism that they should also have sanctioned/banned various foreign officials who also advocated violence on Twitter, but that doesn’t mean they shoudn’t have banned the most prominent and egregious violator – Trump. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/35 "2021-01-12T19:45:35Z")
By the way, this isn’t the first time I’ve seen this discussion. The last time I saw it, it was about malls having replaced the public market, and how in malls, unlike on public streets, the mall owner can evict a guy who sets up a soap box and starts attracting a crowd. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/36 "2021-01-12T19:11:08Z")
A recent closed thread asked if it was a first Amendment violation. It is not. But one poster in the thread raised the issue of whether it might be an oligopoly issue. In a world in which a very few companies, and in fact a very few individual executives, control the soapboxes of the public square, should there be some consideration to that power by a very few, that it not be applied capriciously? Case made by Russian dissident and assassination attempt survivor Alexey Navalny. > Neither is Merkel a fan. > **[Germany's Merkel hits out at Twitter over 'problematic' Trump ban](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/germanys-merkel-hits-out-at-twitter-over-problematic-trump-ban.html)** > > German Chancellor Angela Merkel blasted Twitter's decision to ban U.S. President Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/37 "2021-01-12T19:12:16Z")
IMHO, not _yet_ unacceptable, but it indicates a worrying direction. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/38 "2021-01-12T19:15:05Z")
Not at all. It was about promoting violence, not about political viewpoint. Promoting violence is not a legitimate political viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/39 "2021-01-12T19:16:31Z")
Similar thread > [@Are social media's recent bannings a freedom of expression issue?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330): > > Starting a new thread because I think the other one ([OK Let's do this: who thinks social media's recent bannings are first amendment violations?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-lets-do-this-who-thinks-social-medias-recent-bannings-are-first-amendment-violations/930310/38)) asked the wrong question, but there was interesting discussion developing on the question of freedom of expression. Banning incitement to violence, or anything else that’s actually illegal, should not be a problem. But going further and banning political speech (and that includes ‘hate speech’ when it can be defined so broadly) is a freedom of expres… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/40 "2021-01-12T19:19:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not at all. It was about promoting violence, not about political viewpoint. Promoting violence is not a legitimate political viewpoint. By this same token, Facebook/Twitter could have banned support for Black Lives Matter or the 2019 Hong Kong protesters. Both involved violence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330.md?page=3)