# Are social media's recent bannings a freedom of expression issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330 "2021-01-12T14:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/122 "2021-01-13T19:55:04Z")
If you aren’t paying for it, you are not a customer. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/123 "2021-01-13T20:20:23Z")
Mo Brooks proves that you don’t need Twitter or any of the other social media products to release a rambling message directly to your constituents (link originally supplied by RickJay): [https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/congressman-mo-brooks-rebuts-vicious-scurrilous-fake-news-media-and](https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/congressman-mo-brooks-rebuts-vicious-scurrilous-fake-news-media-and) ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/124 "2021-01-13T20:59:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What you are complaining about is that there are only a few _popular_ newspapers. And since those are the popular ones, you think that they _must_ publish your letter to the editor, or they are infringing your speech. You completely ignore the fact that there are countless other newspapers out there that would be willing to publish your letter, simply because those platforms are not as popular This exactly. The entire snowflake national-socialist (in a Left Right weirdo merger) argument is they have a political right to get their ideas distributed by the most easy and convenient private distributor-publisher. Well no. Internet hasn’t changed a damn thing and stripping private owners of their rights for some bizarro world Left-Right extremists right to seize these private channels is deluded. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/125 "2021-01-13T22:04:33Z")
“I’m NOT a socialist, I’m a _national_ socialist! Now hand over the Twitters and the FaceBooks!” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/126 "2021-01-14T08:40:32Z")
The head of the Republican Party of San Francisco was interviewed on a local news show. (Brief segment, not a long interview.) His position was that the insurrectionists (my term, not his) only went into a few empty rooms, and Trump being banned on Twitter and Facebook was a much more serious threat than the invasion of the Capitol. Even after the somewhat shocked reporter reminded him that people died there. He also said that millions of people were blocked, which news to me. Maybe he meant millions of Trump lies were blocked, ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/127 "2021-01-14T09:52:25Z")
Banning people (including world leaders) on Twitter is not the problem. The problem is that anyone ever imagined Twitter was a good place to administer a function of world leadership. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/128 "2021-01-14T10:46:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the case of Donald Trump, even more so. Trump was a very lucrative product indeed for Twitter. He brought them even more users and activity (hell, he raised the market awareness of Twitter) which made them lots of money, and when they got rid of him their stock price fell ten percent. Dumping Trump was a calculated move that his poison would eventually cost them more money than he made for them as a product. The “he violated our terms of service” bit is bullshit; he violated the TOS for years, and Twitter’s application of their TOS has always been inconsistent with anything except their money-making algorithms. They decided the Trump product wasn’t going to make them money, so they discontinued it. I don’t care that Trump got kicked off Twitter, but I’m worried that unaccountable billionaires have so much power over what views are promoted to their vast audiences. It’s not like they even have to follow their own rules, there’s no appeal if you’re falsely accused and nothing to make them kick off someone who does break the ToS. It’s dangerous in the same way as governments allowing one person or company to own too large a share of the traditional media, which is another current problem. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/129 "2021-01-14T12:28:13Z")
This is a reasonable concern (about the wealthy and powerful), but it has nothing to do with left vs right, or social justice/“wokeness” (if anything, those wealthy and powerful largely favor right voices since the right wants to make sure they retain every bit of their wealth they can). ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/130 "2021-01-14T12:47:48Z")
I think the wealthy and powerful are on their own side, and just making use of whatever beliefs on either side benefit them. There’s this phenomenon of corporate ‘woke-washing’ where companies make statements supporting BLM or put rainbow flags all over their branding for pride month while continuing to exploit their workers. They are interested in looking good and in their bottom line, not in actually helping anyone. It would be a mistake to assume left-wing views won’t be similarly censored when they don’t suit the CEOs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/131 "2021-01-14T12:53:17Z")
Right. But this is part of how a free society should work – bad people can/should be pressured to do good things even if they do it for the wrong reasons. It’s a good thing when a company sanctions white supremacy on their platform or among their employees, even if they do so for cynical business reasons. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/132 "2021-01-14T13:01:18Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I object to Twitter or Google deciding what’s true or false, or right and good, even more than to the government doing it. At least people get to vote for the government. Who wants to tell him about private medical insurance or private prisons? Anyway, even if you’re mostly wrong on this, welcome to the discussion of why communications monopolies are bad and net neutrality is good. It’s been going on for considerably long time before your particular ox was gored. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/133 "2021-01-14T13:15:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Anyway, even if you’re mostly wrong on this, welcome to the discussion of why communications monopolies are bad and net neutrality is good. It’s been going on for considerably long time before your particular ox was gored. You’re operating under a serious misconception. I’ve been worried about free speech for years and this is just the latest issue in a long list. Also, private prisons are a bad idea, we don’t want to give businesses a motive to encourage more crime/more criminalisation. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/134 "2021-01-14T14:22:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a good thing when a company sanctions white supremacy on their platform or among their employees, even if they do so for cynical business reasons. I assume you mean when they don’t allow it? It’s fine when it’s something obviously bad, but it’s not always so clear cut. We don’t want our self-interested corporate overlords deciding questions of morality, that is for the people. And there is a more long term problem. The company that puts a rainbow flag on its website but is still anti union, donates to the government who then concentrate on social justice issues that don’t affect the company’s bottom line. Which is not to say social justice issues are unimportant, but so are class issues, and they have been neglected for too long. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/135 "2021-01-14T14:38:22Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > We don’t want our self-interested corporate overlords deciding questions of morality, that is for the people. Yeah, but the people do get to vote on corporations, they vote with their wallet. If a corporation does something that they don’t like, they can boycott it, and encourage their friends to do so. It is in the self interest of exactly those corporate overlords to please the public, in some ways, even more so than it is in the interest of politicians. As much as some decry the notion of “cancel culture”, that is exactly what it is when the public gets to vote on the actions of corporations. If everyone stopped using twitter tomorrow, what power do they have? > [@DemonTree](#): > > The company that puts a rainbow flag on its website but is still anti union, donates to the government who then concentrate on social justice issues that don’t affect the company’s bottom line. Getting money out of politics is rather important, but is a completely different problem, and probably outside the scope of this thread. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Which is not to say social justice issues are unimportant, but so are class issues, and they have been neglected for too long. Social justice issues are not contrary to class issues. That would be exactly the notion of “intersectionality”. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/136 "2021-01-14T15:13:18Z")
Can someone enlighten me as to what exactly we’re debating? I’m pretty sure we’ve demonstrated that an internet soapbox is easy to set up. It’s also hard to take seriously accusations of censorship when those who claim to be censored have far more power to be heard than the average Joe. Hell, POTUS can simply put his musings on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) or call a press conference if setting up mastodon or creating a Gab account is too difficult. Hell, this fucking crazy lady has a microphone and is on TV and still thinks she’s being censored. [![](https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/01/13/20/Greene.jpeg?width=982&height=726) ](https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/01/13/20/Greene.jpeg?width=982&height=726) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/137 "2021-01-14T15:35:03Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I assume you mean when they don’t allow it? Yes… I’m using the “penalize” meaning for sanction. > [@](#): > > It’s fine when it’s something obviously bad, but it’s not always so clear cut. We don’t want our self-interested corporate overlords deciding questions of morality, that is for the people. Sure. So the disagreement is on these particular instances, not whether corporations can/should do this sometimes. > [@](#): > > And there is a more long term problem. The company that puts a rainbow flag on its website but is still anti union, donates to the government who then concentrate on social justice issues that don’t affect the company’s bottom line. Which is not to say social justice issues are unimportant, but so are class issues, and they have been neglected for too long. Yes, this can also be a problem. What is it we disagree about again? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/138 "2021-01-14T17:10:13Z")
To @DemonTree and anyone else who thinks Twitter’s response is a restriction on Trump’s freedom of expression: what’s the functional difference between a Trump tweet and a post on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov)? Both are easily accessible by billions of readers. It might be currently easier for Trump to tweet but a few days of coding would make it possible for him to “tweet” on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/139 "2021-01-14T17:29:32Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Can someone enlighten me as to what exactly we’re debating? From my perspective, as the creator of one of the threads that merged into this one, we are debating the degree of power over the debate in public square that a few CEOs now have, how they exert that power, and whether we as a society (expressed as users, product, consumers, customers, and citizens) decide if there is: 1. a public interest in controlling disinformation and hate speech 2. a public interest in having the square contain a wide diversity of opinions and ideas 3. a need to have some system that balances those dynamics such that a few individuals alone do not have excess effective and arbitrary control over what is contained in each bucket, lest they at some point do the censorship work of the autocrats for them in return for opportunities to make more profit. Some would claim that so long as the weapon of shutting down expression is aimed at my enemy then that is all I need to know. Some recognize that the weapon that can be turned against my enemy when its owner sees it in their best interest to do so, can just as easily be used against me, when its owner sees it in their best interest to do so. And want controls placed on the weapons use before it is turned in that direction. If we wait until it is faced that way it is too late. Some here argue that there is no concentrated power to any worrisome degree. I at least am not convinced of that by the arguments made here. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/140 "2021-01-14T17:32:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You completely ignore the fact that there are countless other newspapers out there that would be willing to publish your letter, simply because those platforms are not as popular. This glosses over the fact that large companies have been buying up all of the other newspapers. Facebook owns Instagram and WhatsApp. They have purchased 82 other companies. Twitter’s mergers are easily in the dozens. I am definitely beginning to believe that portions of the internet that we consider “free” will need to be regulated like other communications platforms. We would be livid if you could only talk to people on phones on the same network, and those phone companies could kick people off the network if they didn’t like what they had to say. Would that destroy Facebook’s valuation? Maybe. Regulation of the telephone industry certainly screwed over some big companies back then too. But wouldn’t Facebook be a far better platform if rather than being paid for by advertisement (and thus monetized through your own addiction, heightened emotional state, and personal information) it was just paid for with cold hard cash like any other communications tool? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330/141 "2021-01-14T17:44:33Z")
Some would say that using the passive voice of making claims of other’s arguments is a poor way of framing another’s position. > [@Jas09](#): > > This glosses over the fact that large companies have been buying up all of the other newspapers. This ignores the point that it is trivially easy to create your own “newspaper” at any time. It is far, far easier to create an internet platform than it ever was to start up an _actual_ newspaper. How long did it take Parlor to get up and running? Who is buying up the SDMB? At no time in history has it been easier for someone to put their voice out there. What is being complained about is that people are not being guaranteed an audience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-social-medias-recent-bannings-a-freedom-of-expression-issue/930330.md?page=8)