# Are some parents really that DENSE! Stupid ass book banning Parents! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677 "2005-09-14T22:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/81 "2005-09-15T18:35:18Z")
I should add: My basis for that comparison is that it strikes me as odd that people have no problem with their children learning about the horror and atrocities people visit on each other, but… write _two little sentences_ about oral sex, and THE WORLD IS AT AN END!!! Holy fuck, people! What is it about blowjobs that gets us in such an uproar? Just because it’s an uncomfortable subject to some people? It should never ever be discussed because it’s s-e-x? Gimme a break! ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/82 "2005-09-15T18:35:50Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > My school (Penn State) has a list hanging up of the books that have the most attempted bannings. I see it as a personal challenge to read some of the one’s I haven’t read. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > That is the dumbest possible reason for deciding which books to read. Is it any dumber than not reading at all? I’m curious as to why some of those books are on a banned list. What better way to decide for myself whether they belong there or not than to read a few of them? I have read a number of them before including _Catcher in the Rye_, _I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings_, and _Of Mice and Men_ but there are others I hadn’t heard before. Is it any stupider than just grabbing what’s on the New York bestsellers list? That would have me reading drivel like _The Davinci Code_ or some selfhelp-Dr.Phil garbage. If I can’t decide to read a book based on someone else’s judgement of the content, how exactly am I supposed to decide what book to read next? Choose a book that has an interesting cover? :rolleyes: I mean we all know that you can’t judge a book by it’s cover. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/83 "2005-09-15T19:02:10Z")
I’d find it hard to beleive that the people who designed this program weren’t intentionally looking for a fight over this. Anyone who survived the Clinton presidency and the what…year and a half worth of blow job stories on the news, knows that Americans are obsessed with sex, and not in a good way. As has been said earlier, if the intent of the program was really to expose people to different cultural authors, there are several whose works don’t contain fairly graphic representations of an act that a significant percentage of the population is going to find objectionable. However, it is an advanced program, and I do remember reading material such as this in college. What probably should have happened (and based on the article I have no way of knowing if it did or not) is that the parents should have been warned about the content ahead of time and thus been given enough time to sit down with their child and discuss it in terms of the beleif system the parents have raised the child under. This probably would have smoothed over a lot of the rough spots of this whole ordeal, and take a lot of the wind out of the sails of those who did decide to complain. This, however, is a silly, reasonable thing to do, and I’d be surprised if the school board or anyone else even considered it, instead prepping themselves for yet another banner news day. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/84 "2005-09-16T09:07:00Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > I’d find it hard to beleive that the people who designed this program weren’t intentionally looking for a fight over this. You might be on to something. The book may have been assigned ostensibly to expose students to the sensibilities of another culture, but the resulting controversy may have been intentional. I imagine that Ann Dixon’s students are learning a great deal about book banning and censorship. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/85 "2005-09-16T16:53:00Z")
Am I the only person going ‘hunh?!’ on some of these banned titles? I don’t get it, do they all have sexual content that I have missed? I wouldn’t be too suprised, though. Someone once asked me if _The Stand_ would be good reading for her son (then 11ish) and I was thinking yeah, why not. Then I read it again, paying attention to it a little more closely and decided that the correct answer was ‘no’ when I got to the sodomy by gun rape scene. I sort of forgot it was there because it is just one small part of a 1100+ page book and it is in context. The thing about a decent book is that it is a decent book. I don’t think we can judge a book by page 243 more than we can judge it by its cover. I would be interested to know what anyone who has actually read the whole book thinks about it. I _do_ think that banning books makes them more popular (and I _always_ read locked threads just to see why) since I had never heard of this book until this thread discussing its banning. Unless this 17 year old has no friends, no money, no internet access, no library, and no curiosity…she’s heard/seen/done worse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/86 "2005-09-16T17:15:37Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > I don’t know but I’ll make you a copy and send it to you. I’m going to grab one for myself on Monday. This may not be the same one, but here’s the [American Library Association’s list of The 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990–2001](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/87 "2005-09-16T17:47:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This may not be the same one, but here’s the [American Library Association’s list of The 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990–2001](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm) Seeing this list brings up an interesting question for me. Specifically, I am wondering if there is any information out there that states the reason _why_ a particular book was challenged. Too often, it seems, we are presented with these lists (not that you are doing it this way, mind you) in such a way as to feed our feelings of intellectual superiority both in how many of the titles we have already read and also because of some of the completely silly items on them (Where’s Waldo springs to mind, and folks also seem to have a terrible hard-on for Judy Blume). What I would be very interested to know is the reasoning behind these challenges (granted, some of them I can make a good guess at. Usually a sex thing). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/88 "2005-09-16T18:00:17Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > What I would be very interested to know is the reasoning behind these challenges (granted, some of them I can make a good guess at. Usually a sex thing). I’m guessing Where’s Waldo is a problem because one of the women has perky nipples. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/89 "2005-09-16T18:02:24Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Seeing this list brings up an interesting question for me. Specifically, I am wondering if there is any information out there that states the reason _why_ a particular book was challenged. This (pdf) [graph](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/challengesbytype20002003.pdf) totals the reason for challenges. Explicit language and sex lead the way. Doesn’t explain Where’s Waldo though, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/90 "2005-09-16T18:11:22Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Seeing this list brings up an interesting question for me. Specifically, I am wondering if there is any information out there that states the reason _why_ a particular book was challenged. There’s a link at the top of the page for "[Challenges by Initiator, Institution, Type, and Year.](http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=bbwlinks&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=40912) All are PDF files. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/91 "2005-09-16T18:16:14Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > There’s a link at the top of the page for "[Challenges by Initiator, Institution, Type, and Year.](http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=bbwlinks&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=40912) All are PDF files. That doesn’t really show anything, though. See the graph linked by **TYM**. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/92 "2005-09-16T18:20:47Z")
Here’s a list from a [Christian Science Monitor](http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/1998/05/19/p55s2.htm) article from 1998: > [@](#): > > I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings Maya Angelou (Too sexually explicit; doesn’t represent traditional values.) > > The Scarlet Letter Nathaniel Hawthorne (Conflicts with values of the community.) > > A Separate Peace John Knowles (Graphic language.) > > To Kill a Mockingbird Lee Harper (Conflicts with values of the community.) > > A Wrinkle in Time Madeleine L’Engle (Undermines religious beliefs.) > > Moby Dick Herman Melville (Conflicts with values of the community.) > > Beloved Toni Morrison (Too violent.) > > Catcher in the Rye J. D. Salinger (Use of profanity.) > > Twelfth Night William Shakespeare (Encourages homosexuality.) > > A Light in the Attic Shel Silverstein (Too dreary and negative.) > > Of Mice and Men John Steinbeck (Use of profanity.) > > The Joy Luck Club Amy Tan (Conflicts with values of the community.) > > The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn Mark Twain (Racially offensive.) > > Little House in the Big Woods Laura Ingalls Wilder (Racially offensive.) > > Native Son Richard Wright (Sexually graphic and violent.) Further updates as developments warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/93 "2005-09-16T18:22:54Z")
The [Banned Books Resource Guide](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bbwkit.htm#resourceguide) and the [yearly update](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bbwkit.htm#update) (which I designed this year) tell you where and when and why the book was banned and any related court rulings or community/school decisions. I don’t know if the info is collected online though; the resource guide is pretty big, like 200-some pages. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/94 "2005-09-16T18:24:02Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > That doesn’t really show anything, though. See the graph linked by **TYM**. Right. What I am looking for is a cross-tab to the list of challenged books that gives the reason for the challenge. Like this: Book1 Challenged for excessive use of the word pie. Book2 Challenged for pervasive themes of Og smashing. Book3 Challenged for Hi Opal. Book4 Challenged because of stupid inside jokes. You get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/95 "2005-09-16T18:24:12Z")
Yes, I know. It links to a list of the graphs for each year for each of the specific categories listed. That’s where that graph came from. Holy crap. 200+ people actually challenged books because they considered them “anti-family”? What does that even _mean_? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/96 "2005-09-16T18:25:38Z")
Sorry, I really need to start quoting people, that was to **Lute Skywatcher** ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/97 "2005-09-16T18:29:49Z")
[Here.](http://title.forbiddenlibrary.com/) A nasty tan print on black background website, but it does seem to have a good list. > [@](#): > > Where’s Waldo? Martin Handford. Little. Challenged at the Public Libraries of Saginaw, Mich. (1989), Removed from the Springs Public School library in East Hampton, N.Y. (1993) because there is a tiny drawing of a woman lying on the beach wearing a bikini bottom but no top. Yes, but did they find Waldo? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/98 "2005-09-16T18:36:54Z")
On the ALA site, they do give this list: > [@](#): > > Three of the 10 books on the “Ten Most Challenged Books of 2004” were cited for homosexual themes - which is the highest number in a decade. Sexual content and offensive language remain the most frequent reasons for seeking removal of books from schools and public libraries. The books, in order of most frequently challenged, are: > > “The Chocolate War” for sexual content, offensive language, religious viewpoint, being unsuited to age group and violence > > “Fallen Angels” by Walter Dean Myers, for racism, offensive language and violence > > “Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture” by Michael A. Bellesiles, for inaccuracy and political viewpoint > > Captain Underpants series by Dav Pilkey, for offensive language and modeling bad behavior > > “The Perks of Being a Wallflower” by Stephen Chbosky, for homosexuality, sexual content and offensive language > > “What My Mother Doesn’t Know” by Sonya Sones, for sexual content and offensive language > > “In the Night Kitchen” by Maurice Sendak, for nudity and offensive language > > “King & King” by Linda de Haan and Stern Nijland, for homosexuality > > “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings” by Maya Angelou, for racism, homosexuality, sexual content, offensive language and unsuited to age group > > “Of Mice and Men” by John Steinbeck, for racism, offensive language and violence ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/99 "2005-09-16T18:53:35Z")
> [@Gaudere](#): > > The [Banned Books Resource Guide](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bbwkit.htm#resourceguide) and the [yearly update](http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bbwkit.htm#update) (which I designed this year) tell you where and when and why the book was banned and any related court rulings or community/school decisions. I don’t know if the info is collected online though; the resource guide is pretty big, like 200-some pages. I am curious about the quotes on the posters offered on that site. Is the text reproduced elsewhere that is more easily read? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677/100 "2005-09-16T18:54:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Captain Underpants series by Dav Pilkey, for offensive language and modeling bad behavior As a parent who’s read every _Captain Underpants_ book six times over, I’ll just elaborate here: “Offensive language” = Kid-giggling words like “potty,” “wedgie,” “poop,” and “pee-pee”. “Modeling bad behavior” = The main characters like to rearrange letters on magnetic signs to spell funny sentences, pull pranks on their (tight-assed) teachers, and demonstrate how to rig toilet seats to spray ketchup when someone sits on one. Frankly, any parent who can’t handle a kid being exposed to this level of mischief shouldn’t be parenting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-parents-really-that-dense-stupid-ass-book-banning-parents/321677.md?page=6)