# Are Some People Above The Law? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574 "2022-08-12T19:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/21 "2022-08-14T20:59:08Z")
If only there was some indication that hinted at what was just being discussed, > [@Bootb](#): > > The Constitution … The Constitution but alas there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/22 "2022-08-14T21:56:14Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Since impeachment, rather than criminal indictment, is the method prescribed for removing the president from office, it necessarily follows that indicting a sitting president is not allowed. So if a sitting president started shooting people in the White House, he wouldn’t immediately be arrested, but instead, they would wait for an impeachment hearing to get rid of him? I don’t believe that, do you? ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/23 "2022-08-15T02:32:16Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > The Constitution is not a document that says, “The government can do everything except what’s listed here.” The Constitution is a document that says, “The government can do nothing except what’s listed here.” Not to take this discussion off topic, but I do not agree with your assessment. The Bill of Rights essential states what the Government _cannot_ do. Rather than enumerating positive rights, the Constitution asserts negative rights–freedom of speech, freedom of religion, _habeas corpus_, and a fair trial. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/24 "2022-08-15T16:39:43Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > To expand on this - The LAW is just words put on paper created by imperfect human beings and administered by imperfect human beings. Some people are adept at creating the laws with chinks and cracks that let other adept people wiggle through them. And some people who administer the law respond to specious motivations. Some people understand that POWER gives them sway over other people and the law, so they make sure that they accumulate and exercise power. This. Although I would say no one is above the law, but the _law_ is flawed, and those flaws extend outward into the practice and perception of the law and as a result some people appear to be above the law. In reality anybody can exploit those flaws if they have enough money and influence, it’s still an equal opportunity system. Any child could grow up to be a corrupt president of the United States some day and manipulate the law to avoid the consequences of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/25 "2022-08-19T13:29:05Z")
A couple years ago, I met the FBI agent who led the investigation that brought down Jordan Belfort (the Wolf of Wall Street guy). He is actually more like Joe Pesci than Kyle Chandler (which would have been awesome, but I digress). He was saying that one of the problems with these sort of investigations is that they take years and often overlap multiple DA administrations. And with each new DA, they have different priorities. But I think it speaks to how if you have enough money and wealth, you can hid your criminal wrongdoing or make applying the law such a pain in the ass it isn’t worth it unless you do something horrible. Trump mostly gets away with stuff because he’s good at being a pain in the ass and the crimes he is charged with are mostly esoteric financial stuff most people don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/26 "2022-08-19T15:46:46Z")
I think I got it now. The law really is for the little people not for the moneyed class. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/27 "2022-08-19T16:01:55Z")
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/28 "2022-08-19T19:10:55Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > The law really is for the little people not for the moneyed class. That’s not exactly a new concept. Trump, in particular, poses a different problem in that it is difficult to explain to Trumpers the difference between prosecuting a criminal and using the power of the government to punish your political rival. They are incapable of understanding the difference, the same way they fail to understand the difference between election fraud, and childish whining about losing fair and square. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/29 "2022-08-19T19:34:51Z")
Generally because the SDMB is made up of relative smart, sane, literate people. _Generally._ ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/30 "2022-08-19T23:31:57Z")
It’s simply due to bias: if Trump had did what Hillary did, Dopers would calling for his head. Me? I think both Trump _and_ Hillary should be in prison. But I tend to look at things objectively… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/31 "2022-08-20T02:08:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > He was saying that one of the problems with these sort of investigations is that they take years and often overlap multiple DA administrations. And with each new DA, they have different priorities. And especially with white-collar crime, the DAs and LEAs often have to face a public pressure about “go get the ‘real’ criminals” i.e. prioritize those who are robbing or shooting or making my streets unsafe. Sure, nail those corrupt fat cats, but they are not going anywhere and at best they’d be making a deal to land in Club Fed so why rush. > [@msmith537](#): > > But I think it speaks to how if you have enough money and wealth, you can hid your criminal wrongdoing or make applying the law such a pain in the ass it isn’t worth it unless you do something horrible. Right. Going after the fat cats is high-effort, slow results. And while some highly placed types may fold and cop a plea right away just so that they may protect assets and keep their delicate selves away from true hard time, others will be more confident that they are in a position to make the LEAs say it’s not worth the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/32 "2022-08-23T02:58:49Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Since impeachment, rather than criminal indictment, is the method prescribed for removing the president from office, it necessarily follows that indicting a sitting president is not allowed. Impeachment removes presidents from office? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/33 "2022-08-23T04:14:39Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > He doesn’t actually have them, though, because his ability to pay for them does not translate into his doing so. The camera-hungry fools he uses to scare the shoeless rubes and keep his donation grift going aren’t the real lawyers keeping him out of jail. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/34 "2022-08-23T04:57:10Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > if Trump had did what Hillary did, Dopers would calling for his head. What exactly are you claiming that “Hillary did” that was illegal? With specific charges and reliable cites, please. So many conservatives at this point have just made up their minds that Hillary MUST have done something really lock-her-up bad, because that’s an axiom of conservative folklore by now, but they can’t substantiate any allegations of actual lawbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/35 "2022-08-23T06:29:52Z")
Being a Clinton in the first degree with conspiratorial intent to remain so. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/36 "2022-08-23T12:40:15Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Impeachment removes presidents from office? An impeachment conviction is the only way to remove a sitting president. The shorthand of using the term _impeachment_ to mean the whole process is pretty standard, if technically incorrect. It doesn’t have to result in removing the president, but it’s the only way to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/37 "2022-08-25T19:05:36Z")
I think there are two ways to go with this question when the OP puts in Donald Trump as the example. Are rich people above the law meaning that if you can afford top attorneys are you de facto less likely to be charged or, if charged, less likely to be convicted than the rest of us? And even if convicted get a lighter sentence? Empirically I think that in the US we would have to agree to that. Or is it about Trump qua President being above the law? Nixon held to a theory (forgive me but I can’t remember the name of it or who came up with it but I don’t think it is the Unity Theory) that yes, the President as the executor of US Law is above the law similar to how The Monarch of the United Kingdom is above the law since the law is carried out in their name. Remember he said, “When the president does it, that means it is not illegal”. So by that theory Trump (and all of the other presidents) are above the law in their official capacity of President. Two things though, even if true they are not above state law and I believe that this theory has been pretty well refuted. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/38 "2022-08-25T19:08:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What exactly are you claiming that “Hillary did” that was illegal? With specific charges and reliable cites, please. I think it was conspiring with Vince Foster to traffic kids through a pizza place to Bengazi with the records kept on an unsecured mail server. ---
**Author:** ![Workingdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f17d59/32.png) [@Workingdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Workingdude)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/39 "2022-09-10T02:08:04Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > If all men in American society are equal, and “no one is above the law,” why does it appear that Donald J. Trump continues to get away with breaking the laws, something most folks would easily go to prison or at the minimum, get arrested and charged in court for. What laws has Trump broken? Trump is probably 100 times cleaner than Dirty Joe Biden and his dirty son Hunter!!! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574/40 "2022-09-10T11:43:17Z")
> [@Workingdude](#): > > What laws has Trump broken? Trump is probably 100 times cleaner than Dirty Joe Biden and his dirty son Hunter!!! Here’s the issue with what you got here. While there may be something about Hunter, it’s speculation at best, and that speculation is mostly/totally hearsay by one side that stands to benefit from said hearsay, but **nothing has been presented to us**. Same thing with Trumps claims of the other sides election fraud - **where is the evidence,** where is your lawyers pressing forth with a case of mass voter fraud anywhere? All such claims, though filed, were never put forth in front of a judge, all such claims of mass voter fraud were withdrawn by team Trump at the bench and minor things were perused instead. I’m sorry, I may as well be in the show me state and that’s where Trump never once came through. And that’s a big problem. He seems to want blind obedience and refuses to present evidence he says he has. I say put up or shut up, shit or get off the pot and show us what you got. And the red flag that what he accused the other side of doing (election fraud), he got caught doing himself. We can first hand ourselves see some of Trump’s crimes, such as attempted election fraud. We can hear Trump’s own voice demanding that votes be ‘found’ for him and mentioning prison to the person Trump was talking to. This is just one example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-people-above-the-law/969574.md?page=3)