# Are some scientific theories so harmful they should be suppressed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672 "2020-11-28T14:20:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/221 "2020-12-02T22:00:53Z")
Studies looking at anything biological and race all suffer from a fundamental flaw. There is no agreed upon biological (not social) definition of race. Any definition based on genetic differences must either conclude that there are many races originating within Africa, or only one race originating outside Africa. Studies that divide subjects based on socially divided categories are not likely to demonstrate biological differences. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/222 "2020-12-02T22:16:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Good science does help ensure smart people aren’t converted to nonsense by those pseudoscientific white supremacists. > > I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. What did I say that you disagree with? I’m saying, I don’t stay awake worrying about smart people and people of good will coming for me because somebody is promoting bad science. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/223 "2020-12-02T22:16:39Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Any definition based on genetic differences must either conclude that there are many races originating within Africa, or only one race originating outside Africa. Why is that a problem? I thought there _were_ many races originating in Africa? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/224 "2020-12-02T22:19:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > History shows that pseudoscience about race is ALWAYS a part of racist atrocities. Always. This isn’t just some replaceable cog – per history, it’s an integral part. Can you give an example from one of the recent genocides? (Disturbing and depressing that that’s something one can say.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/225 "2020-12-02T22:20:49Z")
I would say no. Just about everything could be used to injure or discriminate or to do some other negative action. But by the same token, they all have positive applications or implications as well. It’s all in how they’re actually applied. Take for example, the research into cholinesterase inhibitors. Yes, they’re used as nerve gases for warfare and assassinations, but they’re also used for Alzheimer’s medication and very effective and generally safe insecticides. The research itself is neutral- it’s the applications that have ethical and moral concerns. Same thing with the research into the fundamental workings of the atom- it led to nuclear weapons, but it also led toward things like a lot of modern chemistry, nuclear power, and medical applications. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/226 "2020-12-02T22:25:05Z")
Neither do I. Is this thread about the fears that keep us up at night? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/227 "2020-12-02T22:31:54Z")
Sure: [Incitement to genocide - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement_to_genocide#Rwandan_genocide) > [@](#): > > Gordon describes four categories of RTLM broadcasts before the genocide. The first type criticized Tutsis based on alleged characteristics (such as wealth, similar to antisemitism, or physical traits). Another type of broadcast generalized all Tutsis as “inyenzi” (cockroaches) Such examples are not at all hard to find. Convincing one group that the other group is inherently inferior and/or malevolent is pretty much a necessary part of genocides. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/228 "2020-12-02T22:32:02Z")
At the risk of fighting the OP hypothetical: 1. Some scientific discoveries, if suppressed, will simply lead to an enemy finding it out anyway and using it for worse ends. If the U.S. did no nuclear research in WWII in the name of ethics, you’d see some other nation get the atom bomb first anyway. Which would be a worse outcome. 2. Squelching something can lead to the Streisand Effect, where even more people learn about it than would have otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/229 "2020-12-02T22:33:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Kidding aside, we agree that no more money, time and attention needs to be spent on things that are pseudoscience. But sometimes we know pseudoscience when we see it and sometimes it takes a little time, money and attention to figure that out. I was talking specifically about racist pseudoscience, which has a different set of harms from, say, homeopathic pseudoscience. Without giving a pass to the latter, the former’s done a helluva lot more harm. As for needing time to figure it out, I’m pretty comfortable that we’ve figured it out for racist pseudoscience. New theories purporting to show biological differences between socially-constructed races have a really high bar of skepticism to overcome, compared to other new hypotheses about, say, multiverse science. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/230 "2020-12-02T22:34:42Z")
More on how racist pseudoscience was a part of the Rwandan genocide: [SciELO - Brasil - Phrenology and the Rwandan Genocide Phrenology and the Rwandan Genocide](https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0004-282X2018000400277&script=sci_arttext) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/231 "2020-12-02T23:00:55Z")
Phrenology! Well, I’ve learned something. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/232 "2020-12-02T23:04:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Neither do I. Is this thread about the fears that keep us up at night? Well, some people may lay awake at night worrying about bad science being done. We each struggle with our own demons. But I’d like to modify my previous answer, if I may. I do lay awake at night worrying about the smart person. The one who is also a racist. We saw what kind of damage a dumb racist can do and we’re not entirely sure we’re out of the woods yet. A smart racist may just do some real damage next time. And he - and why is it always a he? - anyway, he won’t be concerned with us calling him stupid because intelligence based or race is pseudoscience. Yeah, I worry about that guy. Much less concerned about people of good conscience, whatever their intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/233 "2020-12-02T23:05:31Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Phrenology! Well, I’ve learned something. No. You haven’t. And don’t confuse the two when you see your Nephrologist. They hate that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/234 "2020-12-02T23:06:42Z")
This doesn’t appear to conflict with anything I’ve written, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/235 "2020-12-02T23:08:03Z")
You may claim this victory. I’ll take the next one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/236 "2020-12-02T23:27:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m talking about pseudoscience, not real science. I don’t know what this sort of “conclusive scientific proof” would do. But we have tons of history about racist pseudoscience – and every mass atrocity in human history was accompanied by pseudoscience meant to help justify it. I think the justification comes after the will to commit the atrocities exists, after the hatred exists the hatred does not come from the justifications. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pseudoscience was a useful tool for the Nazis. Without it, it would have been harder to motivate their population to tolerate and support this genocide. > > History shows that pseudoscience about race is ALWAYS a part of racist atrocities. Always. This isn’t just some replaceable cog – per history, it’s an integral part. I think you have cause and effect mixed up. I think the hatred precedes the justifications. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/237 "2020-12-02T23:28:49Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I think you have cause and effect mixed up. I think the hatred precedes the justifications. The order doesn’t matter. The hatred is necessary. So are the justifications. Without the justifications, the genocide isn’t going to happen. They need the pseudoscience to motivate people to help their genocide. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/238 "2020-12-02T23:33:06Z")
No. They need to tell people lies and for people to believe those without questioning. Trump is my cite. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/239 "2020-12-02T23:44:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ve had a million threads on this topic. There is no actual science that indicates that black people are inherently inferior, genetically, in intelligence. None. Not a single shred. If you disagree, let’s see it. Open a thread for it, if you don’t think it fits this one. > [@Velocity](#): > > Without diving deep into the topic of race and IQ (which would be a separate thread,) a lot of people use circular reasoning (or Scotsman-ing) to avoid having to engage with the topic. You are talking about genetic differences and I think Velocity might be talking about differences in intelligence that could arise from environmental factors. I think the disconnect here might also stem from your use of the term pseudoscience, it’s not clear what you mean by that term. It is not like geocentrism which has been conclusively disproven. It is a controversial but unresolved issue on which there seems to be some controversy and differences of opinion. It is an unproven racist theory. There are racial differences in IQ, this is either the result of nature or nurture. I think that the default should be that racial differences in IQ are attributable to environment absent some proof that the disparity is the result of inherent differences. > **[Race and intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Research_into_the_possible_genetic_influences_on_test_score_differences)** > > Discussions of race and intelligence – specifically regarding claims of differences in intelligence along racial lines – have appeared in both popular science and academic research since the modern concept of race was first introduced. With the inception of IQ testing in the early 20th century, differences in average test performance between racial groups have been observed, though these differences have fluctuated and in many cases steadily decreased over time. Complicating the issue, modern ... ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672/240 "2020-12-02T23:48:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The order doesn’t matter. The hatred is necessary. So are the justifications. Without the justifications, the genocide isn’t going to happen. They need the pseudoscience to motivate people to help their genocide. Of course the order matters. You are saying that the acknowledging racial differences in intelligence will somehow lead to genocide and slavery. That isn’t true. Even without the justifications you can have genocide and slavery. Slavery was practiced around the world without these justifications. Genocide can exist without these justifications. Certainly without justifications of racial differences in intelligence, all that’s required is hatred. Once again I think its a little silly to think that racial differences in intelligence will lead to genocide and slavery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-some-scientific-theories-so-harmful-they-should-be-suppressed/926672.md?page=13)