# Are souls fireproof. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300 "2016-08-10T01:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/141 "2016-08-19T02:10:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’d still make him a dick, though. He’s omnipotent and omnisentient. He couldn’t think of a plan that _didn’t_ require suffering? That’d still make him a dick, though. He’s omnipotent and omnisentient. He couldn’t think of a plan that _didn’t_ require suffering and still respected human free will? I’ll concede that not all things that cause suffering are man created the fact is that he couldn’t create a plan that didn’t require suffering and still respected free will unless humans didn’t wish to cause suffering. I don’t think humans have this trait. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/142 "2016-08-19T02:36:05Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I’m certain this is wrong. The work of Philip Zimbardo proves this to me. Put people in absolute control of other people and they simply don’t do a good job. That’s the price of humanity, to be doomed not to practice it. I don’t know Philip Zimbardo. I Googled him, but couldn’t find anything substantive, just that he’s a philosopher and author. I agree that no one can do a perfect job. To err is human. But I also don’t believe that most of us, specifically those participating in this thread (or just reading it) would make the utter ham-fisted boners that God makes in the Bible. Like having to wipe out humanity with a flood, just because people were behaving according to their nature. Why genocide? Why a flood? Why not…y’know…send a savior? Or, since it’s a do-over anyway, why not just make small, strategic alterations in human nature, to clean up the wickedness? It looks petulant, like a golfer bending his clubs over his knee because he sliced a shot. God is petty and whiny and far too dramatic, all through the OT (and a good part of the NT.) I stand by my opinion; I wouldn’t have done a perfect job, but I definitely would have done a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/143 "2016-08-19T02:53:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t know Philip Zimbardo. I Googled him, but couldn’t find anything substantive, just that he’s a philosopher and author. Zimbardo is not a philosopher. He is the psychologist who created the notorious [Stanford Prison Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment), in 1971. [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqQiS9GF1JU) a documentary (YouTube link). Quick summary: It’s a famous/infamous study of authority, and what happens when people have it, or are subjected to it. A group of college students were randomly assigned roles of guards or prisoners in a mock-up prison. The results were… interesting. Although very controversial. A [feature film](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420293/) was made about it recently, which, as far as I can tell, follows the real events very closely. Well worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/144 "2016-08-19T02:55:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t know Philip Zimbardo. I Googled him, but couldn’t find anything substantive, just that he’s a philosopher and author. Sorry, was listening to an audible book about him on the way home tonight. He was the one who created the Stanford prison experiment. [Here you go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment) > [@](#): > > I agree that no one can do a perfect job. To err is human. But I also don’t believe that most of us, specifically those participating in this thread (or just reading it) would make the utter ham-fisted boners that God makes in the Bible. Like having to wipe out humanity with a flood, just because people were behaving according to their nature. Yes, we would if that experiment has any validity. These were college students with no ulterior motives who became animals when given great power over others. We could use Lord Acton’s statement "“Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” Even God apparently ( to some ) is not immune to this law and if he is, we aren’t so I have no expectations that humans in general would be better at it. > [@](#): > > Why genocide? Why a flood? Why not…y’know…send a savior? Or, since it’s a do-over anyway, why not just make small, strategic alterations in human nature, to clean up the wickedness? It looks petulant, like a golfer bending his clubs over his knee because he sliced a shot. God is petty and whiny and far too dramatic, all through the OT (and a good part of the NT.) > > I stand by my opinion; I wouldn’t have done a perfect job, but I definitely would have done a better job. He should have written the bible if he was concerned with how people viewed him. He didn’t and apparently he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/145 "2016-08-19T02:56:15Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Zimbardo is not a philosopher. He is the psychologist who created the notorious [Stanford Prison Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment), in 1971. [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqQiS9GF1JU) a documentary (YouTube link). > > Quick summary: It’s a famous/infamous study of authority, and what happens when people have it, or are subjected to it. A group of college students were randomly assigned roles of guards or prisoners in a mock-up prison. The results were… interesting. Although very controversial. > > A [feature film](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420293/) was made about it recently, which, as far as I can tell, follows the real events very closely. Well worth watching. That link is going to come in handy after listening to the book. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/146 "2016-08-19T03:59:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why do you think that allowing someone to continue life on earth, with all it’s miseries- as opposed to eternal joy in Heaven is better? > > Since you have no faith, _you_ assume life on Earth is the reward. And since all you have is faith, you are guessing that there is any other reward. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/147 "2016-08-19T04:01:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He got solace and the certain knowledge he was going to Heaven, perhaps. We know what he asked for and didn’t get, while you are assuming, without evidence and possibility of confirmation, about what he _might_ have gotten. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/148 "2016-08-19T04:14:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We know what he asked for and didn’t get, while you are assuming, without evidence and possibility of confirmation, about what he _might_ have gotten. Playing devils advocate here the hypothetical only says that the christian prayed for help not being saved or anything. If he was a christian then even though it’s still an assumption it’s a safe assumption to make that he would have considered being taken from the fire directly to heaven as help. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/149 "2016-08-19T10:41:52Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Playing devils advocate here the hypothetical only says that the christian prayed for help not being saved or anything. If he was a christian then even though it’s still an assumption it’s a safe assumption to make that he would have considered being taken from the fire directly to heaven as help. And it’s a safe assumption to maked that if they found the charred remains of a body in the aftermath that particular prayer wasn’t answered, either. This bit about how God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is “no”? Praying to a coin before flipping it will get you the same result…and the coin doesn’t come with a set of vague set of instructions, nor does a coin threaten your soul if you don’t worship it right. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/150 "2016-08-19T11:23:32Z")
There is also the theory that God is basically playing _The Sims_. We’ve all done that, right? Everyone is at least somewhat familiar with the game? So, we know what it’s like. We love all our sims. Of course we do! We made them. Even the ugly and unpleasant ones we love, we designed them that way, after all. They are like our children. We love watching them live their little sim lives. We give them stuff, like houses and furniture from the most recent DLC. We mostly want them to be happy. But, once in a while, it’s more fun to see what happens when one dies in a fire. Just for kicks. Or, to drown one in a pool. Even the cute sim children. It’s just hilarious to watch them squirm. Does that make us heartless? Does it make us sadistic psychopaths? Actually, maybe it does. But, come on, let’s admit it: We all do it. No _Sims_ player doesn’t torture and murder their sims at least a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/151 "2016-08-19T16:41:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And it’s a safe assumption to maked that if they found the charred remains of a body in the aftermath that particular prayer wasn’t answered, either. This bit about how God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is “no”? > Praying to a coin before flipping it will get you the same result…and the coin doesn’t come with a set of vague set of instructions, nor does a coin threaten your soul if you don’t worship it right. No, it’s not known whether the prayer was answered or not. The answer wasn’t please don’t let me burn in the fire. It was please help me and to a devout christian getting into heaven would indeed be help. Would it help you or me? Nope, but to a believer it would. Getting into heaven would trump surviving the fire. That’s the point of martyrdom. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300/152 "2016-08-19T16:45:48Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > There is also the theory that God is basically playing _The Sims_. > > We’ve all done that, right? Everyone is at least somewhat familiar with the game? So, we know what it’s like. We love all our sims. Of course we do! We made them. Even the ugly and unpleasant ones we love, we designed them that way, after all. They are like our children. We love watching them live their little sim lives. We give them stuff, like houses and furniture from the most recent DLC. We mostly want them to be happy. > > But, once in a while, it’s more fun to see what happens when one dies in a fire. Just for kicks. Or, to drown one in a pool. Even the cute sim children. It’s just hilarious to watch them squirm. Does that make us heartless? Does it make us sadistic psychopaths? Actually, maybe it does. But, come on, let’s admit it: We all do it. No _Sims_ player doesn’t torture and murder their sims at least a little bit. I had been thinking of this earlier but it depresses me. I own every version of the Sims but I have never been able to kill a sim. No starving, drowning, electrocution nothing. I’ve seen a few sims die on accident and yes that was funny but I’d derive no pleasure from killing one. I wasn’t always like this. I’m not sure what’s wrong with me. I’m never the bad character in RPG’s either. I don’t think it’s wrong to be so but it makes me uncomfortable to do so. It feels wrong to me so I can’t do it. I know, I’m weird. SHRUG. I stopped writing short stories too. I don’t enjoy putting them through what characters must endure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-souls-fireproof/762300.md?page=7)