# Are speed limits really that low? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945 "2016-12-31T01:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/21 "2017-01-01T04:33:51Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > If “everybody passes you” because you’re driving slower than everyone else, you’re a hazard and the roads are definitely not “a tiny bit safer” with you on them. Again, bullshit. People in general need to slow down on the roads, especially in residential areas with kids. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/22 "2017-01-01T04:34:35Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > IIRC the 407 is a toll highway, and I always suspect that they can issue you a ticket based on your average speed. [They don’t use it for that.](https://www.407etr.com/en/help/general/faq-highway/faq8.html) This is a persistent rumor on every toll road system that uses electronic tolling, but I don’t think any toll road has ever sent out speeding tickets like that (at least in North America). ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/23 "2017-01-01T04:56:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Again, bullshit. People in general need to slow down on the roads, especially in residential areas with kids. You sure as shit shouldn’t be using cruise control on those streets! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/24 "2017-01-01T10:14:42Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > [They don’t use it for that.](https://www.407etr.com/en/help/general/faq-highway/faq8.html) This is a persistent rumor on every toll road system that uses electronic tolling, but I don’t think any toll road has ever sent out speeding tickets like that (at least in North America). I have been told that this is true for the French autoroutes. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/25 "2017-01-01T11:12:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > [They don’t use it for that.](https://www.407etr.com/en/help/general/faq-highway/faq8.html) This is a persistent rumor on every toll road system that uses electronic tolling, but I don’t think any toll road has ever sent out speeding tickets like that (at least in North America). I have been told that this is true for the French autoroutes. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/26 "2017-01-01T11:48:30Z")
I think it’s “Riviere” by Dumas Dumas. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/27 "2017-01-01T12:34:49Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s bullshit. The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road. And do you think those same professionals don’t know that people will be driving 5-10 mph faster, and factored that in to their calculations? Don’t be silly. Haven’t you heard of safety margins? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/28 "2017-01-01T12:58:51Z")
Sorry about the “silly” remark. It was uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/29 "2017-01-01T14:27:23Z")
In the UK there has been a lot of consideration of raising the motorway (freeway) limit to 80 in recognition of the fact that speed limits were calculated a long time ago, when cars were harder to control at high speeds and braking distances were much, much longer. The trouble is, most people already drive at about 80 so an increase might be interpreted as “really” meaning 80 is the minimum, and 90 the new norm. All this is separate to limits on smaller roads, which are observed by more motorists and there is no discussion of increasing them. Sent from my Mi-4c using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/30 "2017-01-01T15:21:39Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s bullshit. The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road No, they’re often set by politicians who want to maximize revenue. > [@Johanna](#): > > Again, bullshit. People in general need to slow down on the roads, especially in residential areas with kids. If we are talking about such areas, I don’t have too much of an argument. On the other hand, it may make me subject to the tyranny of the majority, but I try to drive (on interstates and unsignaled highways, note) in such a way to lessen _friction_ between myself and other drivers. If that means I have to go a bit faster than the limit (and this usually means going 5-10 over), then so be it. I find if I am in the far right lane going at the limit (here it means 65-70 MPH), I will be dealing with big rigs all the time (either passing me or coming up on them), as well as with merging on-traffic at every on-ramp. I most definitely do not feel “calmer and more peaceful” in such circumstances. OTOH, going too fast in the far left lane all the time I would find to be very stressful as well, given that I would have to keep an eye out for cops all of the time, when I’m not coming up on all of the left lane hogs around here. I just want to hang in the middle lane (most of our highways are now 6 lanes, 3 each way) and listen to my tunes. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/31 "2017-01-01T15:33:56Z")
When it comes to driving, it’s always better to be smart than to be right. If (slightly) breaking the speed limit keeps the traffic flowing smoother, than that’s the smart thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/32 "2017-01-01T15:38:01Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s bullshit. The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road. I always drive at the speed limit. I set my cruise control and stay all the way to the right. Everybody passes me. OK. It won’t be me the cop pulls over for speeding. Since I took up cruising at the speed limit in the right lane a few years ago, I have become ever so much calmer and peaceful and life feels better as a result. I can’t do a thing about other drivers speeding except stay alert and drive defensively. The roads are that tiny bit safer when I’m on them. Perhaps you are very young, or not an American. > [@](#): > > Congress repealed the National Maximum Speed Limit in 1995. Since then, 34 states have raised speed limits to 70 mph or higher on some portion of their roadway systems. [http://www.ghsa.org/state-laws/issues/speeding%20and%20aggressive%20driving](http://www.ghsa.org/state-laws/issues/speeding%20and%20aggressive%20driving) Wikipedia has a good map showing the variation by state. > **[File:US Speed Limits.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Speed_Limits_May_2015.svg)** > > Original file ‎(SVG file, nominally 512 × 237 pixels, file size: 469 KB) > > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. I can assure you that the states that raised their speed limits did **NOT** re-engineer and re-build their highways. Instead, interstates that had been 65mph were changed to a higher speed. In Colorado, many state highways were raised from 55 to 65. So please explain to us–were the previous limits set with a built-in safety margin, or are the new limits unsafe? You cannot have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/33 "2017-01-01T17:53:24Z")
In New York City and State, they are definitely too low. NYC recently lowered the speed limit to 25 on all streets, which is practically crawling, and put speed cameras to enforce it. For the state, there’s an artificial 55 MPH speed limit on all downstate highways, even though there’s no reason the Long Island highways (beyond about 10 miles from the NYC/Nassau line) can’t sustain the same 65 that upstate highways allow. And those, in turn, could easily sustain the same 75 that states out west allow. Fuck speed limits. They’re not being set by engineers, they’re being set by politicians who want money. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/34 "2017-01-01T18:14:55Z")
For most people, I think they just have a ingrained sense of “Well, that obviously doesn’t apply to me” when it comes to speed limits. Or it’s the King Of The Road syndrome. For whatever reason (and it could be nothing more than just bad driver training), they feel compelled to speed. Frankly, a little bit better planning might be the answer. I have three long drives that I make every year. I know roughly how long I can last behind the wheel before I need a break, so I knock 15 minutes off that and plan the rest/gas stops accordingly. Barring unforeseen circumstances, such as someone speeding and causing a wreck, I will usually hit my destination within 15 minutes either way. And since I plan to arrive several hours before I need to, I have no time pressure at all. Set the cruise control and away we go. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/35 "2017-01-01T18:34:38Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s bullshit. The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road. I always drive at the speed limit. I set my cruise control and stay all the way to the right. Everybody passes me. OK. It won’t be me the cop pulls over for speeding. Since I took up cruising at the speed limit in the right lane a few years ago, I have become ever so much calmer and peaceful and life feels better as a result. I can’t do a thing about other drivers speeding except stay alert and drive defensively. The roads are that tiny bit safer when I’m on them. People who set their cruise control and stay in the far right lane are the reason why merging onto the interstate can be a real pain. I see this every day when I commute to work. I turn onto the entrance ramp, with the rest of the traffic behind the light, and then there is always someone puttering up the right hand lane at 64mph blocking the line trying to merge. This usually causes people to have to brake hard, or swerve to avoid. I’ve seen many near misses, many blown horns over this. I have yet to actually see a collision, but that is because the cars merging are doing their best to avoid the obstacle being presented. You are not making things safer. You may feel safer, but that is only because you are not paying any attention to the effects your actions are having on the other drivers sharing the road. > [@Johanna](#): > > Again, bullshit. People in general need to slow down on the roads, especially in residential areas with kids. In residential areas, I usually don’t even get up to 20. As you are a stickler for the rules, I assume you take it up to 25 through them, regardless of traffic or conditions, as that is the speed that was determined to be safe by professionals who are the best to determine what speed is safe for the road. I have yet to see an interstate as a residential area with kids. Speed limits were made for the worst drivers and the worst maintained cars among us, those incapable of judging road conditions, traffic, personal capability, and the car’s performance. If we could raise the bar for driving, both as far as personal capability, and car maintenance, we could both have higher limits, and be much safer. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/36 "2017-01-01T19:07:38Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Some states do actually require annual safety inspections. Virginia is one of them. Thirty of 50 states do, encompassing the great majority of US cars since it includes CA, NY and TX. I think previous poster’s common cultural affect of joy of some Americans in proclaiming how ‘stupid’ we are got a little carried away relative to the facts. A lot of the reason the US has more fatalities per person in cars is than typical rich countries is simply more miles driven, and more country roads. However the rate per mile is still not low in the US. But a good deal of the reason for that is demographics, same reason which tends to be ignored in many cases of the ‘why can’t we be more like the Europe?’ mentality. IOW there’s reason to doubt if more or stricter car inspection would have much effect on US road fatalities. It really is ‘the nut that holds the wheel’ as Henry Ford supposedly said, to a significant degree. Of course technical car safety has had a huge effect cumulatively from Model T’s to now. However at the point we are now I believe safer features are significantly offset by the false sense of invincibility they tend to create. What’s more other non-car technical advances (cell phones) are acting in the wrong direction\*. And then there’s serious adverse selection issue in trying to enforce stuff like stricter inspections, along with insurance, and back to the topic, speed limits. The people ignoring all those things will be of a certain profile of behavior, often a certain demographic profile, often one somewhat different in the US than other rich countries, that also tends to cause accidents. \*perhaps ‘self driving’ will cause a sea change in this phenomena, yet to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/37 "2017-01-01T19:07:59Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s bullshit. The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road. I’d like a cite that the people who set the speed limit are qualified to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/38 "2017-01-01T19:26:00Z")
Rather than just add to all the points piling onto Johanna’s generally misguided posts I’d emphasize that how she is _not_ enhancing road safety by sticking to the right lane if significantly below the speed of the flow of traffic. At least when I took driver’s ed (in the US 40 yrs ago) we were taught that keeping up with the flow of traffic outweighed sticking to the posted speed limit as a safety consideration. Which is how I drive on highways. My baseline is the speed limit, but I’ll speed up if too many people are passing me at too great a relative speed. You should be able to swing out of the right lane (in other than heavy traffic), to allow more leeway to driver’s merging onto the highway at entrances, without forcing people going at the generally prevailing rate of speed to put on the brakes, ie you shouldn’t go far below the speed of the general flow even if it means technically speeding, subject to common sense judgement (ie constructing some extreme scenario where this is bad advice doesn’t refute the point). On non-highways, like highways, some speed limits are set reasonably and others are ridiculously too low due to politics/revenue raising. In my small extremely densely populated city with very narrow streets they post 25, ‘but 20 is plenty’ and I do 20 max, assuming it’s not slippery. The chance of killing or seriously injuring somebody who pops out from behind a parked car, or omnipresent delivery trucks blocking the view at intersection crosswalks, is much less at 20 than 25 even if you can’t fully stop and you hit them. I was glad the person who hit me and my dog in the next city over (though he had no excuse, we were with the light in a crosswalk in clear view, I’m pretty sure he was texting or something) wasn’t going fast. But you can’t go 10 or 5 and eliminate all risk. It’s always a balance, or else cars would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/39 "2017-01-01T20:29:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In residential areas, I usually don’t even get up to 20. As you are a stickler for the rules, I assume you take it up to 25 through them, regardless of traffic or conditions, as that is the speed that was determined to be safe by professionals who are the best to determine what speed is safe for the road. The speed limit means the absolute highest speed in ideal conditions, not a target\*. I know **Johanna** said she sticks to the speed limit on the freeway but it’s a bit disingenuous to imagine that means she keeps a constant speed in the much more varying and unpredictable environment of residential streets. - Though i would agree that in practice things aren’t quite so simple. For example, say I’m on a limit 65 road and I want to pass an 18-wheeler traveling at 57 mph. If I were to obey the speed limit during this maneuver, I would be side by side with the truck for a dangerously long amount of time. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945/40 "2017-01-01T20:44:21Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The speed limit means the absolute highest speed in ideal conditions, not a target\*. > I know **Johanna** said she sticks to the speed limit on the freeway but it’s a bit disingenuous to imagine that means she keeps a constant speed in the much more varying and unpredictable environment of residential streets. I would hope that not to be the case. My point was more along the lines of “The speed limits are set by professionals who are the best to judge what speed is safe for which road.” being a bad rule to follow, as the residential streets are marked as 25, and regardless of what professionals who are best to judge what speed is safe have to say, it is necessary to use your own judgement, as is the case for all driving situations. Same as you may not be a safe driver doing 25 down a residential street, you may not be a safe driver driving 65 in a 65 zone, if you are obstructing traffic. > [@](#): > > - Though i would agree that in practice things aren’t quite so simple. For example, say I’m on a limit 65 road and I want to pass an 18-wheeler traveling at 57 mph. If I were to obey the speed limit during this maneuver, I would be side by side with the truck for a dangerously long amount of time. Yeah, I don’t really pay much attention to my speedometer while I am in traffic. I pay attention to my relative speed with respect to other cars. Sometimes, I speed up a bit to get past a truck, sometimes I slow down a bit to allow other cars to merge. Setting cruise control in heavy traffic is pretty much looking to cause an accident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-speed-limits-really-that-low/775945.md?page=3)