# Are SSRI antidepressants worthless in the long term? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052 "2015-11-30T19:36:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/282 "2020-07-22T04:57:53Z")
I don’t know what you mean, Sir. It was in response to a claim that the medial profession was pure of intent. it was a ridiculous claim. What is your devotion to this topic and me based on? Biases come in from experience, true. I can testify to stuff as can many others believe me. I have never been so chased in a thread and had so much protesing as in this one. What is that really all about? This is a site devoted to debate and that is guided by experience and intellect. I have been prudent in my claims. But you all are straw manning, ad homineming and trying to misrepresent me to “protest” that things cannot happen in the world. They do happen and you need to be cautious. That’s my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/283 "2020-07-22T13:59:59Z")
Golly, I don’t recall anyone saying the medical profession is “pure of intent”. Maybe you could point that out to those of us sheeple who’ve had the wool pulled over our eyes. What I _have_ seen here is a striking invocation of the Nirvana fallacy\*, in which SSRIs, because they are not perfect, are therefore useless. \*also popular among those who criticize cholesterol-lowering meds, vaccines, water fluoridation etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/284 "2020-07-22T15:55:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Pantastic: Just show me an ad or interview with a shrink that said/says SSRIs are a miracle cure for depression or would make “everything better” for depressed patients and I’ll acknowledge error. NYT “In the late 1980s and the 90s, Prozac was widely viewed as a miracle pill, a life preserver thrown to those who felt themselves drowning in the high waters of mental anguish.” > **[Selling Prozac as the Life-Enhancing Cure for Mental Woes (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/22/us/selling-prozac-as-the-life-enhancing-cure-for-mental-woes.html)** > > In the late 1980s and the ’90s, Prozac was seen as a life preserver for those drowning in anguish. It was also a marvel of commercial branding. Garry Greenberg: “Despite their continued failure to understand how psychiatric drugs work, doctors continue to tell patients that their troubles are the result of chemical imbalances in their brains. As Frank Ayd pointed out, this explanation helps reassure patients even as it encourages them to take their medicine, and it fits in perfectly with our expectation that doctors will seek out and destroy the chemical villains responsible for all of our suffering, both physical and mental. The theory may not work as science, but it is a devastatingly effective myth.” > **[The Psychiatric Drug Crisis](https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-psychiatric-drug-crisis)** > > Psychiatric drugs have become yet another commodity that we have learned to live with or even enjoy, like S.U.V.s or Cheetos. Yet the industry is in … People Magazine 1993 “When the drug Prozac was first introduced nearly six years ago, it was hailed as a miracle cure for depression.” [https://people.com/archive/miracle-worker-vol-40-no-20/](https://people.com/archive/miracle-worker-vol-40-no-20/) Orlando Sentinel: “PROZAC: THE WONDER DRUG” > **[PROZAC: THE WONDER DRUG](https://www.orlandosentinel.com/1994/02/03/prozac-the-wonder-drug/)** > > It was in the summer of 1993 that Bob first felt the oppressive weight of depression descend on him. “I didn’t want to have any kind of people contact,” the Orange County teacher … Street names: “Wonder drug, miracle drug, happy pills, bottled smilies” [https://www.ascert.biz/drug-and-alcohol-information/a-z-drugs/prozac/](https://www.ascert.biz/drug-and-alcohol-information/a-z-drugs/prozac/) If you’re looking for a psychiatrist literally using the phrase ‘miracle cure’, I never made the claim ‘psychiatrists literally use this phrase’ so don’t have any need to back it. That they were hailed as a miracle cure is pretty clearly documented. > [@](#): > > As for the shill gambit, I’ve seen multiple posters in this thread using it. Not telling anyone what to do, but it’s virtually always uncalled for and sleazy to boot. It’s been aimed at me more times than I can count. So it had nothing to do with the post you were replying to or the poster you named in the post, got it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/285 "2020-07-22T18:33:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Golly, I don’t recall anyone saying the medical profession is “pure of intent”. > [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Every doctor I know, every nurse I know, every pharmacist I know makes it their mission to counter that. None of those three make any money off of unnecessary prescriptions. Full stop. This one went a long way with me. This thread has been filled with flackery. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/286 "2020-07-23T01:12:19Z")
Pantastic is adding sloppy reporting to the sloppy posturing seen in this thread. _None_ of your links (People magazine, really?) cites any physicians or drug companies making claims that SSRIs are or were a “miracle cure”. One article features an interview with Dr. Peter Kramer (who was mentioned earlier in this thread), describing how one third of his patients didn’t respond. That hardly sounds like a “miracle drug” claim. And you’re offering up as evidence that a street name for Prozac was once “wonder drug”? It is to laugh. The idea that millions of physicians and other health care workers have been making piles of dough off SSRI prescriptions is similarly laughable. This thread is evidence that we do need a miracle drug - to enhance critical thinking capacity. Even if it only worked in half of users, it’d be a miraculous improvement. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mcmechanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mcmechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mcmechanic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/287 "2020-07-23T02:51:28Z")
Why my focus on you, sir? All of your cites ignore positive outcomes or any semblance of SSRIs helping people. Just a generic google search of ssri efficacy is enough to educate people to the fact that SSRIs aren’t effective for everyone, but can be very effective for many ( mild symptoms? Not much help, severe symptoms? More helpful) As was mentioned; the perfect is the enemy of progress. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/288 "2020-07-23T12:08:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Pantastic is adding sloppy reporting to the sloppy posturing seen in this thread. _None_ of your links (People magazine, really?) cites any physicians or drug companies making claims that SSRIs are or were a “miracle cure”. One article features an interview with Dr. Peter Kramer (who was mentioned earlier in this thread), describing how one third of his patients didn’t respond. That hardly sounds like a “miracle drug” claim. And you’re offering up as evidence that a street name for Prozac was once “wonder drug”? As expected, I provided cites and your response is to dismiss them because you don’t understand basic English usage, and think that it’s only reasonable to say that psychiatrists were touting something as a miracle cure if they literally utter the phrase “miracle cure”. That’s not how language works, and inventing your own weird rules like that to avoid real discussion doesn’t do anything but demonstrate that you’re in denial about the history of SSRIs. As I said in the previous post and my cites demonstrate, “I never made the claim ‘psychiatrists literally use this phrase’ so don’t have any need to back it. That they were hailed as a miracle cure is pretty clearly documented.” > [@](#): > > This thread is evidence that we do need a miracle drug - to enhance critical thinking capacity. Even if it only worked in half of users, it’d be a miraculous improvement. 🙂 This board could really use one that helps people understand really basic English and communication skills. It would be utterly amazing if people could somehow have the brain power to understand that ‘this was touted as a miracle cure’ does not mean ‘a psychiatrist literally made the statement “miracle cure”’. I’m not holding my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/289 "2020-07-23T14:07:47Z")
How soon they forget. Pantastic: “I never made the claim ‘psychiatrists literally use this phrase’ so don’t have any need to back it. That they were hailed as a miracle cure is pretty clearly documented.” Pantastic, previously: “The fact that (lobotomy) was considered a popular and fun cure and even won a nobel prize (!) should continue to serve as a warning against trusting the field too much, especially when it starts talking about miracle cures.” So you accused psychiatry (wrongly) of touting SSRIs as a “miracle cure” (in addition to misrepresenting the history of lobotomy), got called on it, and your response was to post links to media articles from impeccable sources like People magazine, claiming without attribution that SSRIs were once hailed as miracle cures. Beyond feeble. Evidently we also need a miracle cure for memory loss. That ginkgo biloba isn’t worth shit. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/290 "2020-07-23T16:27:31Z")
I’m wondering something: what exactly both sides want their basic message to be, to the general reader, to psychiatrists and psychologists, to folks currently on an SSRI. This thread has gone on for a long while, so I think it’s lost sight of that. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/291 "2020-07-23T18:26:15Z")
One side is saying they can help but it’s a two edged sword. Watch what you put in your brain, it’s a trial and error process, and that you should think about what it’s like to get off the drugs, before you begin. The other side is saying shut up. Great debate. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/292 "2020-07-23T18:32:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The idea that millions of physicians and other health care workers have been making piles of dough off SSRI prescriptions is similarly laughable. What is this hobby horse all about? SSRIs are not a charitable pursuit. or don’t you remember the sad and happy emoji ads on tv? What is your point? You are defending a major business sector as if they are your little innocent toddler, and expecting that we wouldn’t know how to counter that nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/293 "2020-07-23T18:38:49Z")
Positive outcomes are great. Who said they weren’t? Those are more associated with the start of your SSRI career though. After some time there may be questions to think about, thoughtfully, if one is able to. Is that a no go topic? Are people allowed to discuss it? Here? In this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/294 "2020-07-23T20:49:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So you accused psychiatry (wrongly) of touting SSRIs as a “miracle cure” (in addition to misrepresenting the history of lobotomy), got called on it, and your response was to post links to media articles from impeccable sources like People magazine, claiming without attribution that SSRIs were once hailed as miracle cures. What I did was correctly claim that psychiatrists were “talking about miracle cures”, which your quote from me earlier says, and which the various newspaper articles confirm. That DOES NOT mean that a psychiatrist used the literal words “miracle cure”, which is what you’re trying to pretend it does. Again, this is very basic English usage that you’re either failing at or pretending to ignore to defend the profession that loved lobotomies, neither of which is a good look. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/295 "2020-07-23T20:59:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Again, this is very basic English usage that you’re either failing at or pretending to ignore to defend the profession that loved lobotomies, neither of which is a good look. ▶▶▶Pandemic OK. Seen this libel too many times here. Neurologists invented and promoted lobotomies, not psychiatry. Neurology, not psychiatrists. The Nobel Prize for lobotomy discovery was in the field of neurology. Simple enough words for this thread? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/296 "2020-07-23T21:21:27Z")
Are psychiatrists virgins? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/297 "2020-07-23T23:07:51Z")
BippityBoppityBoo: "OK. Seen this libel too many times here. Neurologists invented and promoted lobotomies, not psychiatry. Neurology, not psychiatrists. The Nobel Prize for lobotomy discovery was in the field of neurology. Simple enough words for this thread?" Should be simple enough (I pointed it out earlier), but that’s one big ax a few posters are resolutely grinding. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/298 "2020-07-24T00:32:16Z")
Per Wiki: "In the early 20th century, the number of patients residing in mental hospitals increased significantly[[n 2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-27) while little in the way of effective medical treatment was available.[[n 3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-30)[[27]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGrossSch%C3%A4fer20115-29) Lobotomy was one of a series of radical and invasive physical therapies developed in Europe at this time that signaled a break with a psychiatric culture of [therapeutic nihilism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_nihilism) that had prevailed since the late nineteenth-century.[[28]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-31) The new “[heroic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroic_measure)” physical therapies devised during this experimental era,[[29]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPressman2002200-32) including [malarial therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malarial_therapy) for [general paresis of the insane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_paresis_of_the_insane) (1917),[[30]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBrown2000371%E2%80%9382-33) [deep sleep therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_sleep_therapy) (1920), [insulin shock therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_shock_therapy) (1933), [cardiazol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiazol) shock therapy (1934), and [electroconvulsive therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy) (1938),[[31]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-34) helped to imbue the then therapeutically moribund and demoralised psychiatric profession with a renewed sense of optimism in the curability of insanity and the potency of their craft.[[32]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-35) The success of the shock therapies, despite the considerable risk they posed to patients, also helped to accommodate psychiatrists to ever more drastic forms of medical intervention, including lobotomy.[[29]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPressman2002200-32) It’s a surgery and so would not be actually invented or performed by a psychiatrist. But to say it is not in and of their world is ridiculous. They were treating physicians of these patients. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/299 "2020-07-24T00:39:44Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s a surgery and so would not be actually invented or performed by a psychiatrist. But to say it is not in and of their world is ridiculous. They were treating physicians of these patients. Squirming there, aren’t you? Had to reach pretty far for that one. Haters have to hate and you hate psychiatrists, no matter the facts. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/300 "2020-07-24T00:57:39Z")
Reaching hard for Google (?) which is what you should be doing. Read my post again and then yours. Mine is just factual and under a big citation. Yours is …? (squirming and hate?) You do not answer me or anyone, ever, here on anything material. What are you actually doing besides constantly fluffing an industry that we are here to talk intelligently about? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052/301 "2020-07-24T00:58:44Z")
Who were the prescribing physicians on lobotomies? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ssri-antidepressants-worthless-in-the-long-term/739052.md?page=16)