are stick shifts disappeaing?

Factual Questions
21

And in the specific case of the OP, my unscientific, anecdotal observation is that Honda of America has been making stickshift Civics scarcer than they need to. Outside dealers with a “ricer” market, they tend to be really strip-bare base models nobody wants (which is good for H of A since the upper-line models have more profit margin).

As ATs get better, for the vast mass of those of us for whom “car = inanimate device that provides conveyance to get from A to B”, the manual’s advantages become marginal.

22

Just the facts, man!

Thanks!

23

Single A’s. C’s with hormones, and D’s with implants. :smiley:

24

they might keep them in the catalog, but how about on the lot? ten years from now when i want a new car will i have to special order it? businesses supply to meet the demand. how many people will be looking to buy a stick?

btw, some guys do think it’s awesome that i can drive a stick, especially when i go up to 50 in second gear. but there are others that don’t take to it too kindly. they’re usually the ones that can’t do it themselves.

25

I’d just like to point out that the original poster probably DID NOT mean stick shifts in the little rice-mobiles (though she’s got one).

I think she’s just talking about general every day cars. AFAIK Honda doesn’t even offer a stick shift on the 4-Cyl Accord, and, while they do have a 5-speed V6, they didn’t have any on the lot when I got a car a few years back.

Manual is becoming a niche market, more or less. The better gas mileage argument is debatable at this point, and if they ever get a CVT into production it will be totally defunct.

As for the ricer/racer market, it’s possible to get modified Auto-ECT chips to allow your transmission shiftpoints to be modified to your liking. If you know a little programming and have the time to put the sensors in, you can get your automatic to shift at the ideal spot every time, profiled for whatever type of event you happen to be in. Cool stuff, expensive, but still cool. Point being, if any major car maker decided to tap the only real market for manual transmissions by making aftermarket for this type of thing easier, the “Yo, you can’t race with an auto” argument also goes the way of the dodo.

Not that a lot of the “stickers make it go faster” kids could use a manual to their benefit, anyway…

26

In the US market you see a higher availability of traditional manual transmission on entry level cars/trucks and the very sporting machinery.

Traditional manual transmission is almost unheard of in the US market for a mid to upscale SUV’s, almost any minivan or domestic mid-size or larger vehicles.

Car and Driver has been quoting (and bemoaning) for many years that fewer than 20% of the US driving population even knows how to drive a standard trans and not all of them own one.

As already stated, many vehicles sold in the US market do not even offer the availablity of a manual trans and some that offer it are lightly stocked. For example, the Saturn L200, a mid-sized sedan is available with manual trans but Chicago area dealers generally do not stock them but often purchase them from rural Wisconsin dealers when they find a manual trans buyer who is unwilling to order from the factory.

One can get a good deal on a factory ordered car if one can convince the dealer that he will otherwise lose the sale. Typically a factory ordered vehicle is only in the dealer’s possession for a few days at most and costs him next to nothing as long as the sale is made in a timely fashion after delivery. Expect to be asked for a hefty deposit when ordering a real oddball car, though.

27

Actually, something interesting about Honda is that with some of their vehicle lines, they are only available with a manual transmission. An automatic is not even an option.

Particularly, the Integra GS-R, RSX Type S, Civic Si, and Prelude VTEC (and later, type SH). With these models, anyone who did not know how to drive a manual were excluded.

The RSX Type S and Civic Si are still in production as manual only, so I wouldn’t say stick shifts are disappearing. They aren’t as common as automatics, sure, but they will always be around.

28

This is a very valid point.

they may be on the way out in America but speaking as another non-american automatics are massively outnumbered her in Britain (And IMHO Europe) by manuals. So much so that if you said to a Brit that you could only drive an automatic they would be bloody surprised.

It would be useful if other EuroDopers could confirm my suspicions that this is also the same in other parts of Europe.

Coldfire! Do a vanity search for chrissakes! :slight_smile:

And manhattan i will try and find some statistics to back this up. please don’t hurt me, you’ve just got to give me more time…

29

When I lived in Germany, one of the standard jokes about America was that “All Americans drive big cars with automatic transmissions.”

Not terribly far from the truth.:wink:

30

ask yourself what happens to people who show up at the street races with a little rice burner… :rolleyes:

the kids who saw the fast and the furious one too many times think it gives them an edge… it doesnt.

most cars now come std with auto’s… i’m not referring to little econoboxes though. most performance cars atleast have the option, though it makes no performance difference because todays automatics are better than the power sapping TH400’s of yesterday… they are computer controlled and allow most cars to get very very close to the stick shift versions in fuel mileage…

31

If you do your driving test in an automatic in the States, are you allowed to drive stick-shifts? Here in Ireland, passing a test in an automatic only entitles you to drive automatics. Obviously, the reverse isn’t true.

32

The guys showing up at street races with automatics usually have good records at the track, and don’t realize it doesn’t translate to street very well.

Unless you’re a fanatic about your shifting, and have lots of practice, the ones that tend to win bracket races tend to be automatics… more consistent, since it shifts at the same point each time.

The older Supra’s were automatics. Still pulled good times too.

Personally, I am going to be getting a stick with whatever Honda or Integra I end up getting, but that’s because I’ll be able to get cool sticker to wrap around the handle… :smiley:

Seriously, I’m all for sticks. But if you’ve got an automatic, as long as it’s got guts, I’m not going to make fun of you.

33

Don’t know about the States, but here in Canada it doesn’t matter whether you take your road test on an automatic or a stick-shift, you can drive either.

I definitely agree that very few people in North America know how to drive stick - outside of my immediate family I know perhaps a handful of people who can, and no other girls. I will say that most guys I know have been impressed when they’ve found out I can drive stick. :slight_smile:

34

Last I knew NY state had no laws limiting you to an auto transmission if you took the test in an auto though other states may be different. I find it highly unlikely though that any state would limit a driver that way. There can be some restrictions on a license however such as eyewear requirements, yearly medical checkups (ie for epileptics) and for younger drivers, having an older driver with them and/or time of day restrictions.

35

in america you can have a license to drive even if you dont speak english and fail the test 9 times in a row…yes they will license any idiot to drive 2000pounds of metal and glass around in places where they will be expected not to hit other people.
and more in line with the thread, I love my Altima, but I hate the fact that its auto and front wheel drive, do you have any idea how hard it is to put that thing into a 4 wheel drift?

36

Thanks for the information. In that case, it probably makes sense that you can’t exchange a US licence for an Irish one - you have to re-sit the test.

37

i’m not sure about other states, but the driving test i took was a joke. it consisted of making three right hand turns, two lefts (all at four way stops) in 20mph zones. no main roads, no traffic lights. and for parking it was pulling straight into the space ahead of me. i basically had to learn to drive after i got my license. i still can’t parallel park.

when i lived in germany i do remember there being nothing but manuals around. the only automatics that i recall were on the army bases.

btw, when applying for an international license, do you have to take any form of tests or is your current license enough “proof” that you can drive? (the term used lightly because i’ve seen southern drivers in action. it can be scary at times.)

38

When I was living in NZ I didn’t know anyone who couldn’t drive a manual.

Living in Australia, I know 1 person who can’t drive a manual.

39

Here in India, cars with automatic trannys have only just been made available to the buying public… until recently, if you wanted an automatic, you’d have to directly import yourself. However, manuals still outsell autos by a huge margin (I looked for stats, but couldn’t find any for India). Although autos are well suited for our traffic conditions, Indians still prefer manuals.

40

So, if I tell you I found this thread without a vanity search, would you believe me? :slight_smile:

Alrighty, automatic transmissions in the Netherlands. I tried really hard to find statistics to back my observations up, really Manny, I did. I failed, though.

Automatics are really rare here. They are usually found in the high-end larger sedans of German ancestry, or in the tiny (mostly Japanese) econobox cars aimed at the elderly. All in all, I dare say less that 15% of the cars with Dutch registrations are automatics.

A few other observations: I see that a lot of people in the US buy their cars “off the lot”. Apart from -obviously- second-hand cars, this practice is rare in Holland. A dealer will typically have one or two cars of a particular model: a base one, and a high end one, both in trim and engine. Those are showroom models, and then there’s usually one or two for testing purposes, typically a middle-off-the-road version. If you want to buy one of those 4 or 5 cars, fine: but chances are they’re not to your liking, of course. Typically, you take a test drive, and then order the car you want, down to the tiniest details. Then, you wait. Depending on the age of the model, the brand, and the time of year, waiting for a new car can range between a month and more than a year (though I’d tell them to stick that car you-know-where if it were more than 4 months or so).

Drivers license: unless you’re somehow disabled or geriatric, no one in the Netherlands gets their drivers license in an automatic. A manual license does allow you to drive an automatic, whereas the reverse does NOT apply. Also, getting a license here is a hell of a lot harder than in (at least most of) the US. Typically, people take anywhere between 20 and 40 1 hour lessons before they do the exam. The total cost of a drivers license ranges between $1000 and $2500 because of this.

Don’t even get me started on bike licenses. :slight_smile: