# Are Stop Signs at parking lots legal? (2nd question: Stop Signs that don't say "Stop All The Way.") **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507 "2011-11-20T01:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/21 "2011-11-23T02:33:09Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I didn’t know that traffic laws pertained to armed robbery… They pertain to them under the Highway Robbery category. ---
**Author:** ![Horseface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4af34b/32.png) [@Horseface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseface)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/22 "2011-11-23T02:33:22Z")
If the stop signs are within the parking lot and not leading to a road they are not enforceable. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/23 "2011-11-23T02:44:20Z")
> [@Horseface](#): > > If the stop signs are within the parking lot and not leading to a road they are not enforceable. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they are also not enforceable leading to a public road. The law just requires you to yield to the traffic on the public road, not stop. I’ve noticed private property stop signs look significantly different than the ones on public roads. The private ones are smaller and cheaper looking. I’ve always treated them as yield signs and never gotten in any trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/24 "2011-11-23T03:21:28Z")
I asked a cop about this years ago (this was in Texas) and he told me it wasn’t enforceable. Since then I’ve breezed through them, though carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Qwakkeddup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Qwakkeddup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwakkeddup)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/25 "2011-11-23T03:38:06Z")
Here is a linky [http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/legal-parking-private.aspx](http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/legal-parking-private.aspx) You could give a read. Pertains mostly to Iowa though. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/26 "2011-11-23T04:13:43Z")
Good cite. One of the comments brings up requirements for a stop sign. My understanding is that stop signs and other signs can’t be enforced on public roads without a traffic study to justify them. Should invalidate all the ones in parking lots. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/27 "2011-11-23T15:02:00Z")
> [@Horseface](#): > > If the stop signs are within the parking lot and not leading to a road they are not enforceable. Absolutely not true, at least not universally. In [Michigan](http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2011/06/trooper_talk_stops_signs_are_p.html), for example: > [@](#): > > MCL.951(1) authorizes a city, township or village to adopt local ordinances to regulate traffic. MCL 257.951(2) provides that upon request of the person in charge of that property, a local police force may enforce ordinances on that private road or parking area. MCL 257.942 specifically states that a local ordinance can regulate traffic in a parking area using traffic control devices. Therefore, a local business could request local police departments to enforce traffic laws on their property, which would include running a stop sign. [In Florida](http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/D50E0A2B15E78EDC8525657200538F2B): > [@](#): > > A municipal police department may enforce the Florida Uniform Traffic Control Law on private property where the public has the right to travel by motor vehicle and on private roads or other limited access roads owned or controlled by a special district when such roads are within municipal boundaries and a written agreement has been entered into by the parties pursuant to s. 316.006(2)(b), F.S. I’m not going to post cites for all 50 states, but folks who are interested can find them with the google. The ratio of facts in this thread to people making pronouncements off the top of their head is astonishing. Please provide cites or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/28 "2011-11-23T16:02:24Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > This is surely correct. When I drove in the US, I encountered “All Way” and sometimes “Two way” clarifications on stop signs. Also one in Harrisburg, PA that read “Opposing traffic does not stop”, which read like a way of saying “For the love of all that’s holy, do not run this stop sign!” Close. It means “For the love of all that’s holy, do not _start a left turn after stopping when there’s an oncoming car!_” > [@kunilou](#): > > When you see an 8-sided, red and white sign with the word STOP in big letters on it IIRC from driver’s ed, you couldn’t stopped at “8-sided”. Any octagon counts as a stop sign, whether it’s missing letters or faded so badly, it’s just a steel plate. Considering the number of red/green color-blind drivers out there, it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/29 "2011-11-23T16:51:21Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > When I drove in the US, I encountered “All Way” and sometimes “Two way” clarifications on stop signs. There are also (more rare) “One Way” and “Three Way” signs around. I have a “One Way” stop sign in my neighborhood. For years, people stopping at it ignored the “one way” notification and just assumed drivers coming from the other two directions were obliged to stop. (But we aren’t. And we don’t.) Then these people would honk angrily at you when you failed to stop, or, they’d speed out right in front of you, requiring you to slam on your brakes to avoid rear-ending them. Finally the town put up a bigger sign, next to the stop sign, pointing out that cross traffic does not stop, _you idiots_. (I’m going from personal memory here.) > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Any octagon counts as a stop sign … Now I want to put up a _seven_-sided stop sign that in all other ways looks perfectly authentic. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/30 "2011-11-23T17:13:48Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > There are also (more rare) “One Way” and “Three Way” signs around. I much prefer the “all way” signs at a T-intersection. Seeing “three way” makes me think “which way doesn’t stop?” And yeah, something specific if there’s one direction that doesn’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/31 "2011-11-23T17:21:00Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Close. It means “For the love of all that’s holy, do not _start a left turn after stopping when there’s an oncoming car!_” Yes, exactly. Given that its far more common for the oncoming side to also have a stop sign, its a warning that traffic from that direction will not in fact be stopping as you might have assumed. Its common here in the Berkeley hills for the steep uphill direction to not have to stop, presumably to avoid making people stop and start on a steep hill. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/32 "2011-11-23T19:36:46Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > If stop signs are not legally enforceable on private property, how about robbery? > Are you saying I can rob someone at gunpoint in the grocery parking lot, and the police can’t arrest me because it’s private property? What if I live in the middle of nowhere on 50 acres of land and build a road around my property (but still within the confines). I put a stop sign there. Are you suggesting the police could ticket me for running the stop sign? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/33 "2011-11-23T19:41:19Z")
The GQ answer is that it varies by state. I know that WV traffic statutes used to read “on the public highways of this state.” It was changed a few years ago after people got DUIs dismissed because they left a restaurant or a bar and had an accident while still within the shopping plaza and therefore had not driven drunk on the “public highways.” I agree with others in that a traffic study should be done of the property before it can be a traffic offense. A driver shouldn’t be publicly held to the whims of an owner who is not a traffic engineer. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Medlo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hi\_Medlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Medlo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/34 "2011-11-23T21:37:19Z")
I think the point is moot because I very seldom see people stop at stop signs anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/35 "2011-11-23T21:41:39Z")
> [@Hi\_Medlo](#): > > I think the point is moot because I very seldom see people stop at stop signs anywhere. Drivers stop at Stop signs more often than they give turn signals, which is hardly ever. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Medlo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hi\_Medlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Medlo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/36 "2011-11-23T22:07:44Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Drivers stop at Stop signs more often than they give turn signals, which is hardly ever. Yeah, you’re right. I spent 21 years as a city letter carrier and depended more on my agility than either of those to stay alive.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/37 "2011-11-23T23:23:11Z")
[These parking lot stop signs happen to be at an intersection of two named roads. I’d wager they’re enforceable.](http://maps.google.com/maps?q=crossroads+center+falls+church+va&ll=38.852826,-77.129366&spn=0.013318,0.01929&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=crossroads+center&hnear=0x89b64b6e7a4663ad:0x6e536688973d9759,Falls+Church,+VA&cid=0,0,11613279286030553869&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=0&layer=c&cbll=38.852908,-77.129485&panoid=KrRUCjYwsDXVLjRduK12XA&cbp=12,315.18,,0,0.08) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/38 "2011-11-24T04:29:18Z")
**Gfactor** has dealt with this question in Michigan. I’ll PM him. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/39 "2011-11-24T12:39:06Z")
> [@RogerDalien](#): > > Some Stop Signs say “Stop All The Way,” does this mean that those Stop Signs which do not say that mean you can slow down without stopping completely? Hey Roger… were you playing with us or did you really think that you didn’t have to come to a complete stop unless the sign said ALL WAY ?? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507/40 "2011-11-24T14:20:59Z")
Here’s a previous thread we did where I cited some cases and stuff: [Do I have to stop at private stop signs? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528118) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stop-signs-at-parking-lots-legal-2nd-question-stop-signs-that-dont-say-stop-all-the-way/603507.md?page=3)