# Are stores that only accept credit cards or Apps discriminatory? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862 "2019-03-10T00:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/21 "2019-03-10T14:34:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You don’t have to go to a golf course or use an airline. You DO have to engage in financial transactions at some point to get food, among other necessities. The restaurants that are doing this aren’t the only places to get food, so those who don’ have credit or debit cards can eat elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/22 "2019-03-10T14:49:17Z")
I feel like I’d be more on board with developing some sort of universal, “public option” debit card system–maybe it just takes direct deposit and puts it on a card, no possibility of overdraft. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/23 "2019-03-10T14:56:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The restaurants that are doing this aren’t the only places to get food, so those who don’ have credit or debit cards can eat elsewhere. Absolutely! Cash customers can eat somewhere seperate, but equal. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/24 "2019-03-10T15:39:55Z")
Well, of course other restaurants are separate. What else could they be? Are they equal? Of course not. Is Gray’s Papaya equal to Peter Luger Steak House? Do you expect them to be? Next are you going to complain that Costco requires you to pay them money for the right to shop there? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/25 "2019-03-10T15:41:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, they’re probably discriminatory in effect, but probably not discriminatory in intent. Intent matters, but effect can vary as well. If a store stopped accepting cash in my neighborhood, I would think nothing of it. There might be intent, but likely no effect. If a store stopped accepting cash in a low income neighborhood, I would think that store just wants to go out of business. There might be an effect, but likely no intent. My eyebrows would only really go up if this happened in a gentrifying or transitioning neighborhood. That’s where the intent and effect might go hand in hand. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/26 "2019-03-10T16:18:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Well, of course other restaurants are separate. What else could they be? Are they equal? Of course not. Is Gray’s Papaya equal to Peter Luger Steak House? Do you expect them to be? > > Next are you going to complain that Costco requires you to pay them money for the right to shop there? Sorry, it just seemed you were setting someone up for a “seperate but equal” spike. Honestly, I have nothing against discrimination. We all do it every day. My business does zero billing, effectively discriminating based on ability to pay. My business also discriminates based on age, refusing to do business with those unable to enter into legal agreements by being under 18. If there is significant demand for cash acceptance, businesses will accept cash, maybe charging more for that luxury. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/27 "2019-03-10T17:05:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If businesses want to encourage cc or App payments they could offer a 3% discount. That would reduce cash payments significantly without refusing to serve a third of our population that relies on cash. > > There was a time when cash sales got discounts. Times have sure changed. > [@Chronos](#): > > You can’t solve the problem by just giving a discount for non-cash payment. There are a lot of costs a business incurs just by taking any cash at all, no matter what nonzero percentage of sales they make up. You need a cash register. You need a person manning the register, or to make your self-pay stations a lot more complicated to handle the cash. You need to have change on hand, both small bills and coins. You need to make regular trips to the bank, carrying something that’s easily stolen. You need means for detecting counterfeits. All of those are things you’d rather do without. Besides you just know that next thing, you’ll have people going to their legislators to argue how dare you penalize the unbanked poor by charging them more, and demand totally equal treatment for cash. You used to have higher prices for credit purchases because businesses would try to recover their transaction fees. Then public opinion pressured for pricing equality. It would happen again. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/28 "2019-03-10T18:53:37Z")
I just want the information clearly displayed on the front of the store so I don’t waste my time shopping only to discover that I can’t pay for what I want because the store decided that “cash only” on the door was adequate. TBH, I don’t remember shopping anywhere that didn’t accept cash. Services such as DMV, yes, but retail, no. I can see the attraction. Armed robbers won’t go to a store that has no cash. ISTM that cash is, or was “legal tender for all debts, public or private” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/29 "2019-03-10T19:00:22Z")
That legal tender clause doesn’t apply in such cases, since no debt is incurred until they prepare and serve the food to you. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/30 "2019-03-10T19:45:38Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Honestly, I have nothing against discrimination. We all do it every day. My business does zero billing, effectively discriminating based on ability to pay. My business also discriminates based on age, refusing to do business with those unable to enter into legal agreements by being under 18. Exactly. I think most people just don’t know what discrimination means. The answer to the OP’s question is Yes, by definition. That’s a different question from whether refusing to accept cash is illegal discrimination, to which the answer is No, except in Philadelphia. But any business which charges a price for anything is discriminating against people who are unable to pay that price. ---
**Author:** ![Mrdeals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Mrdeals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrdeals)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/31 "2019-03-10T21:13:41Z")
I own 3 stores, they all have pretty much an even split of cash/card. One store in particular is in an impoverished area and I have seriously considered going all card. Not a week goes by where there is some amount of money missing, or having an occasional counterfeit get accepted by my…competent…staff. The other two have no issues at all with that, so it should really be left to the business owners discretion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/32 "2019-03-10T21:35:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I initially felt a law wasn’t needed. Supply & Demand and customer backlash can determine what payments are accepted. > > I’ve read that some businesses tried cc only and abandoned it. > > The research indicating how many people would be **disenfranchised** made me reconsider. > > They aren’t mentioned, but I know a lot of seniors use cash. I’ve been behind several as they counted out exact change for a purchase. 😉 > > I dislike using cc unnecessarily because it’s more risk for fraud. Skimmers are a big problem. Bolding added. Do you all just use that word so much that you forget what it means? I take a different view (apart from the obvious ones). If you are an adult without a checking account society should be helping you get a checking account instead of making the vast majority of the rest of society cater to you because you don’t have a checking account. In my criminal defense practice when I get a client accused of selling controlled substances, I usually get a first good indication if they are guilty or not. If they are not guilty, they typically pay with check. If they are guilty, they pay with a wad of cash, typically $20 denominations and smaller. It makes no logical sense to carry cash in today’s society unless you are up to something nefarious. Cash can be stolen; it can be lost. If someone steals my wallet, I can cancel my cards and get replacements. Cash is forever gone. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/33 "2019-03-10T21:43:33Z")
In addition, cash really fuels the underground economy. People who owe back child support or tax obligations don’t open or put money into banks for that reason. Businesses (not me!) evade income tax obligations by accepting cash and underreporting income. Further, society has to progress at some point. I’m sure that when businesses stopped providing watering troughs for horses because more people were using cars it had an impact on poor people who could not afford cars, but the response is not to keep watering troughs in perpetuity or mandate that businesses provide them. Also, is this a real issue? Only the smallest and most boutique sort of places are not accepting cash. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/34 "2019-03-10T22:08:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised to see more city or state legislation requiring most businesses to accept cash. > > I guess Philadelphia’s law will be the test case for any court action? The airlines have been doing this for years. They will not accept cash, only cards for all food & drinks bought on board. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/35 "2019-03-10T22:12:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m sure that when businesses stopped providing watering troughs for horses because more people were using cars it had an impact on poor people who could not afford cars, but the response is not to keep watering troughs in perpetuity or mandate that businesses provide them. Actually, in the next counties east of here the Walmarts do, in fact, have watering troughs for horses. Also shelters for them. They have enough Amish customers to warrant providing a separate parking area for horse-and-buggies and basic shelter/water for the horses. But, 'tis true, none of that is _mandated_. Those stores (and others in that area) find that providing such amenities improves their bottom line. The store I work for still gets 1/3 of its business in cash - we can’t afford to leave that much of our business out in the cold. (And I refuse to believe, contrary to what **UltraVires** asserts, that ALL of that 1/3 “are up to something nefarious”) But at some point it’s going to be a matter of either EVERYONE has genuine access to banking services (which is not the case in the US today) or you’ll have to ban “no cash” business to keep from creating a shut-out underclass. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/36 "2019-03-10T23:08:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But at some point it’s going to be a matter of either EVERYONE has genuine access to banking services (which is not the case in the US today) or you’ll have to ban “no cash” business to keep from creating a shut-out underclass. My checking account has no minimum balance, no fees, no requirements at all. So I don’t see the issue. But I dispute your point, unless you are not being so literal (but you did capitalize “everyone”). Do all advancements in technology require absolutely universal ability to participate or no advancement at all? I cannot see how we would not still be hunters and gatherers if this principle was applied historically. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/37 "2019-03-10T23:44:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > My checking account has no minimum balance, no fees, no requirements at all. So I don’t see the issue. The fact that **you** have a bank that offers this is awesome, but the impression I have is that there are many banks with which that is not the case. Estimates I’ve read indicate that 6 to 8% of U.S. adults are “unbanked” (that is, do not have any sort of bank account), and the biggest reason for this is not having enough cash to open a bank account, or to keep a minimum balance in an account (or may be living paycheck to paycheck, and running out of cash entirely near the end of each pay period, which would lead to being regularly overdrawn if they had a bank account). This suggests to me that there are still many banks which don’t offer that sort of “no requirements” account. There’s an even bigger percentage of Americans who are “underbanked” – they have a bank account, but are still also users of services like payday loans and check-cashing stores. Sources: > **[Unbanked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbanked)** > > The unbanked are adults who do not have their own bank accounts. Along with the underbanked, they may rely on alternative financial services for their financial needs, where these are available. > Some reasons a person might not have a bank account include:\[citation needed\] > The unbanked are described by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as those adults without an account at a bank or other financial institution and are considered to be outside the mainstream for one reason or anoth... > **[25% of US households are either unbanked or underbanked](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/25percent-of-us-households-are-either-unbanked-or-underbanked.html)** > > Twenty-five percent of U.S. households are unbanked or underbanked, according to a 2017 survey by the FDIC. Those are people who either don't have a bank account, or have an account, but still use financial services outside the banking system. [https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/](https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/38 "2019-03-10T23:45:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > My checking account has no minimum balance, no fees, no requirements at all. So I don’t see the issue. > > But I dispute your point, unless you are not being so literal (but you did capitalize “everyone”). Do all advancements in technology require absolutely universal ability to participate or no advancement at all? I cannot see how we would not still be hunters and gatherers if this principle was applied historically. Stores refusing to accept cash is not an advance in technology. And it’s great that where you live you were able to get a checking account with no minimum balance, no fees, no requirements at all - doesn’t mean it’s possible for everyone everywhere. There are only two ways I can get an account with no fees and no minimum balance 1) have direct deposit ( which I can only have if my employer will do it) and a couple of auto bill pays or 2) I can maybe use an online only bank which does not accept cash deposits - but only if I don’t have a Chexsystem problem. > [@](#): > > It makes no logical sense to carry cash in today’s society unless you are up to something nefarious. Cash can be stolen; it can be lost. If someone steals my wallet, I can cancel my cards and get replacements. Cash is forever gone. Really - it makes no sense to carry cash unless you are up to something nefarious? How old are you and do you not know anyone over the age of 40? True, people don’t routinely walk around with a couple of hundred dollars in cash (like my grandfather did) but people have lots of reasons to walk around with smaller amounts of cash. My number one reason is for transactions between individuals\* but if I go to Dunkin Donuts and I have cash on me, I’m probably going to pay in cash. - give a kid a birthday gift or spending money, pay someone who bought tickets for a group , pay for my share of a joint gift , pay my share of a restaurant bill. Yes, I could use Venmo or Zelle or whatever- except none of my peers use those apps . Which is also why I need a bank account that I can deposit cash into. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/39 "2019-03-10T23:51:24Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Stores refusing to accept cash is not an advance in technology. And it’s great that where you live you were able to get a checking account with no minimum balance, no fees, no requirements at all - doesn’t mean it’s possible for everyone everywhere. There are only two ways I can get an account with no fees and no minimum balance 1) have direct deposit ( which I can only have if my employer will do it) and a couple of auto bill pays or 2) I can maybe use an online only bank which does not accept cash deposits - but only if I don’t have a Chexsystem problem. To build on this: here’s [a 2018 CNBC article](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/free-checking-accounts-still-exist-you-just-need-to-know-where-to-look.html) which notes that in recent years, banks have been increasingly placing those sorts of requirements on checking accounts to avoid fees – direct deposit, minimum balance, etc. The article quotes Bankrate data, showing that only 38% of banks offer a standalone free checking product. There are other options for no-fee checking, obviously (credit unions, some online-only banks), but again, that requires knowledge and access. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862/40 "2019-03-11T00:27:09Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > - give a kid a birthday gift or spending money, pay someone who bought tickets for a group , pay for my share of a joint gift , pay my share of a restaurant bill. Yes, I could use Venmo or Zelle or whatever- except none of my peers use those apps . Which is also why I need a bank account that I can deposit cash into. Yes but there is nothing stopping your friends from getting these apps as well. If cash were made illegal (with say a 5 year warning period) you could adapt to the new cashless methods and it would for most people create hardly the slightest inconvenience. Heck, the real delay with going to cashless is you have to convert all those old vending machines, etc. But purveyers of illicit transactions _would_ be inconvenienced. Presently there’s cryptocurrency but the government could ban the exchanges for crypto, essentially making it useless. (people holding crypto already could use it still but the value would plummet to almost nothing) I am aware that with a democratic government it would take a very long time for this to ever happen, if it ever did. But a cashless society would make many forms of crime difficult to commit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-stores-that-only-accept-credit-cards-or-apps-discriminatory/830862.md?page=3)