# Are straight women less attractive than bi and lesbian women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227 "2012-04-09T03:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/202 "2012-04-09T18:35:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > She dated one woman 25 years ago and kissed one woman on TV as part of a performance, for publicity, almost 10 years ago. That’s one relationship and one that was pretend. I don’t think that counts for much. > I didn’t say most women have flings. Do you think I said that, or are you just trying desperately to pretend I agree with you? > _Quoting again:_ > Nothing about “career women.” That wouldn’t even make sense. He’s talked about one industry and said elsewhere that he’s not talking about everybody. She kissed Nicki Minaj just recently. She’s bi. Does it bother you that much? You sated it once, took it back, then Implied it again, so I don’t know what to think. He talks about bank tellers and assistants being bi. That doesn’t have to do with entertainment now,does it? Look at his most cent post. He believes that most women are bicurious as well. Score one for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/203 "2012-04-09T18:35:50Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > You really don’t hear about that anymore. > A truly believe that below the age of 45 there are vey, very few women who haven’t or didn’t want to or don’t. > When it’s the only thing around then yea true. > I agree that maybe most girls have always been bi,and that the lesbian scenes in the media made them act on it. So I guess it’s more correct to say that the majority of women have always been bi, and surveys taken showing such a low number are only shown because they don’t want to admit it. Here’s a thought - you must have women in your family under 45, how do they fit with your observations on this apparently universal truth of female bisexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/204 "2012-04-09T18:40:25Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > A great deal of America is fairly religious and conservative. I don’t see most American women going bi. Perhaps most have had a lesbian fantasy or two, but they won’t act on them. In an atmosphere where they’re free to pursue it, and even encouraged to do so, it’s different. > > The down low is a subject for another thread, but sure, there are and always have been a substantial number of closeted male stars. [Full Service](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/14/entertainment/la-et-0214-book-20120214) tells how it was then, which is pretty much how it is now. Interesting…so you are saying most men in entertainment have done this now as well? Okay now I’m skeptical. I understand the woman but I’m almost sure most men don’t have these fantasies or are in the closet like women are. I’m guessing for men at least it can’t be as common as you make it. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/205 "2012-04-09T18:41:41Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Here’s a thought - you must have women in your family under 45, how do they fit with your observations on this apparently universal truth of female bisexuality? I only have one woman in my family that I speak to, my mother. She is over 45. I don’t have any other close female relatives at all. Your point is invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/206 "2012-04-09T18:42:23Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > She kissed Nicki Minaj just recently. She’s bi. Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying she kissed one female pop star for publicity. Now you’re saying she’s done it twice, a decade apart. That’s much more convincing. > [@](#): > > You sated it once, took it back, then Implied it again, so I don’t know what to think. I didn’t take anything back. I think you’re either paying no attention to what people are saying, or you’re hoping you can win by twisting people’s words, which (I hate to break this to you) you can’t. > [@](#): > > He talks about bank tellers and assistants being bi. That doesn’t have to do with entertainment now,does it? Yes, it does. He said “I’m talking about the glam industry, but also about young women who are on the periphery of the industry.” Do you not understand what “on the periphery means?” > [@](#): > > He believes that most women are bicurious as well. That’s not what he said. And I realize you’re desperate for validation at this point, but just because **Belowjob2.0** said it doesn’t make it true either. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/207 "2012-04-09T18:46:47Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Angelina Jolie, as Fred13 notes, has had long time female lovers, coterminous with her relationship with Brad Pitt. Drew Barrymore admits to hooking up with girls on occasion. > > If you’re really interested in this whole scene in Hollywood, [Full Service](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093684/The-truth-hurt-anymore-How-1940s-U-S-Marine-turned-rent-boy-slept-Hollywoods-elite-threesomes-Edward-Wallis.html) gives a detailed account of mid century Hollywood morays. The same stuff is still going on today. Hey, I try to be tolerant. Just leave the eels alone, please! OK, I was late with the eel humor. Now I’ll go back to read the rest of the thread & see if anybody mentioned that learned source,\* Girls Go Wild…\* ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/208 "2012-04-09T18:49:43Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Pretnending is still bi, sorry. Maybe in your world where women pretend can still be straight but in mine and reality it isn’t. How do you know they didn’t just pretend to be straight until then? And you can’t take back your words, you said it was getting more common in your days, meaning it was becoming more and more common when it was common already. Can you point me toward anyone who explicitly agrees with your definition of ‘bi?’ If not, would you agree that your definition isn’t the same one that most people use? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/209 "2012-04-09T18:50:07Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > By straight, you mean identify as straight, and in a het relationship? > > Would you say that the vast majority of actresses in the Chicago theater scene have never had a lesbian affair, have never dated a woman. Not challenging your experience, I just find it surprising. Most of 'em are married, dear (yes, to men). The only queer women in the industry I know are me and two others. I do know straight women who’ve played queer on set, though; and the Chicago market is a cooperative community rather than the fierce competitive market of LA, which probably influences how much we feel a need to pretend or “be edgy” to stand out. > [@Fred13](#): > > Pretnending is still bi, sorry. Maybe in your world where women pretend can still be straight but in mine and reality it isn’t. How do you know they didn’t just pretend to be straight until then? And you can’t take back your words, you said it was getting more common in your days, meaning it was becoming more and more common when it was common already. No dear, [make-believe isn’t real](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretend). :rolleyes: Tom Hanks played a gay man with AIDS in _Philadelphia._ Does that mean he’s really a gay man with AIDS? Where’d you get the idea I said it was common, anyway? I was pretty specific that it was not. Aside from the fact that putting words in my mouth is disingenuous and not a good way to make your case such that people would take you seriously… what a bizarre, tangential thing to base your argument on. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/210 "2012-04-09T18:50:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying she kissed one female pop star for publicity. Now you’re saying she’s done it twice, a decade apart. That’s much more convincing. > I didn’t take anything back. I think you’re either paying no attention to what people are saying, or you’re hoping you can win by twisting people’s words, which (I hate to break this to you) you can’t. > Yes, it does. He said “I’m talking about the glam industry, but also about young women who are on the periphery of the industry.” Do you not understand what “on the periphery means?” > That’s not what he said. And I realize you’re desperate for validation at this point, but just because **Belowjob2.0** said it doesn’t make it true either. I can’t believe you think Madonna is straight after she said she was bi. I eon’t care if you don’t believe me. Yes he said who,we’re on the verge of fashion, then also added as well as bank tellers and girls in those industries as well. Meaning two separate occasions. He said most women have a few lesbian fantasies, which is bicurious also. But, he’s saying it’s common in men as well, which is why I doubt him now. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/211 "2012-04-09T18:53:44Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > Can you point me toward anyone who explicitly agrees with your definition of ‘bi?’ > > If not, would you agree that your definition isn’t the same one that most people use? No one here does, since if most people on here would think about it they would see that they also believe that most girls are bi. By saying most women end up dating women or hooking up with them, as well as the fact that most women claim a bisexual orientation,ismshowing they unconsciously expect most girls to be bisexual in some way now as well, which is why they say that for women it’s still straight. Bisexual for women is straight, which is what everyone expects now. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/212 "2012-04-09T18:56:01Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Most of 'em are married, dear (yes, to men). The only queer women in the industry I know are me and two others. I do know straight women who’ve played queer on set, though; and the Chicago market is a cooperative community rather than the fierce competitive market of LA, which probably influences how much we feel a need to pretend or “be edgy” to stand out. > > No dear, [make-believe isn’t real](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretend). :rolleyes: > > Tom Hanks played a gay man with AIDS in _Philadelphia._ Does that mean he’s really a gay man with AIDS? > > Where’d you get the idea I said it was common, anyway? I was pretty specific that it was not. Aside from the fact that putting words in my mouth is disingenuous and not a good way to make your case such that people would take you seriously… what a bizarre, tangential thing to base your argument on. Did Tom hanks actually hook up with guys off stage in clubs like these women do, NO. That is the difference. You said it was getting more and more common, meaning it we slightly common, not very, but still common nough when you were in college. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/213 "2012-04-09T18:56:28Z")
Ignore this board for the moment. Does ANYONE agree with your definition? Can you show me someone who does? If not, is there any reason I should agree that your definition is accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/214 "2012-04-09T19:02:28Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > Ignore this board for the moment. Does ANYONE agree with your definition? Can you show me someone who does? > > If not, is there any reason I should agree that your definition is accurate? So, you just ignored my whole explanation of why everyone inherently knows most girls are bisexual now? And yes, I’d you read my earlier posts, you’d understand that I’ve spoken with others who know that most girls are bi. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/215 "2012-04-09T19:03:48Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Interesting…so you are saying most men in entertainment have done this now as well? Okay now I’m skeptical. I understand the woman but I’m almost sure most men don’t have these fantasies or are in the closet like women are. I’m guessing for men at least it can’t be as common as you make it. No, definitely not the majority of men in the industry. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/216 "2012-04-09T19:04:37Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Did Tom hanks actually hook up with guys off stage in clubs like these women do, NO. That is the difference. You said it was getting more and more common, meaning it we slightly common, not very, but still common nough when you were in college. …And now you’re just grasping at straws. Do you understand what pretend means? I provided you with the dictionary definition in my previous post. To wit: women who pretend to be queer **are not really queer.** I am using the common, dictionary definition of the word “pretend” when I discuss this. You can redefine the word all you like, but that has no impact on reality. To be clear, since you seem unable to grasp this, it was not common when I was in college. It became more common after I left. This is also really irrelevant to your assertion that “most” women are queer. This has never been true or “common.” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/217 "2012-04-09T19:07:07Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Most of 'em are married, dear (yes, to men). The only queer women in the industry I know are me and two others. I do know straight women who’ve played queer on set, though; and the Chicago market is a cooperative community rather than the fierce competitive market of LA, which probably influences how much we feel a need to pretend or “be edgy” to stand out. > > No dear, [make-believe isn’t real](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretend). :rolleyes: > > Tom Hanks played a gay man with AIDS in _Philadelphia._ Does that mean he’s really a gay man with AIDS? > > Where’d you get the idea I said it was common, anyway? I was pretty specific that it was not. Aside from the fact that putting words in my mouth is disingenuous and not a good way to make your case such that people would take you seriously… what a bizarre, tangential thing to base your argument on. That’s interesting. The Chicago theater community seems a lot more, conventional, for lack of a better word, than I would have thought. It’s only speculation, of course, but I’d be surprised if none of those straight, married actresses hadn’t had a lesbian fling or three when they were younger. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/218 "2012-04-09T19:07:29Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I can’t believe you think Madonna is straight after she said she was bi. And I can’t believe you think 90 percent of women are bi. But I’m only saying one person is full of shit - and she’s an entertainer who is definitely full of it at least some of the time. You think you know more about women’s sexuality than women do. > [@Fred13](#): > > So, you just ignored my whole explanation of why everyone inherently knows most girls are bisexual now? Which explanation? They were all ridiculous, but you’ve gone through several. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/219 "2012-04-09T19:09:27Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > No, definitely not the majority of men in the industry. Okay, so it’s not too common then with the men? That’s what I expected. If you’re wondering, I’m very untested in this matter as me I’ve heard women speaking about this before and on so,many videos that I’m frustrated with them thinking this happens with men also. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/220 "2012-04-09T19:11:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Hey, I try to be tolerant. Just leave the eels alone, please! > > OK, I was late with the eel humor. Now I’ll go back to read the rest of the thread & see if anybody mentioned that learned source,\* Girls Go Wild…\* [Eel humor.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbflkF_1zY) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/221 "2012-04-09T19:11:19Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > So, you just ignored my whole explanation of why everyone inherently knows most girls are bisexual now? And yes, I’d you read my earlier posts, you’d understand that I’ve spoken with others who know that most girls are bi. As a first approximation, anything that “everyone inherently knows” is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=12)