# Are straight women less attractive than bi and lesbian women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227 "2012-04-09T03:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/222 "2012-04-09T19:15:41Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > …And now you’re just grasping at straws. Do you understand what pretend means? I provided you with the dictionary definition in my previous post. To wit: women who pretend to be queer **are not really queer.** I am using the common, dictionary definition of the word “pretend” when I discuss this. You can redefine the word all you like, but that has no impact on reality. > > To be clear, since you seem unable to grasp this, it was not common when I was in college. It became more common after I left. This is also really irrelevant to your assertion that “most” women are queer. This has never been true or “common.” You can’t even prove my point on Hanks wrong can you? I know what pretend is. But Hank’s pretend is far different from women in belowjob’s experience hooking up with women whe no one’s around. That is bisexual. Also, I’m guessing he is closer to your age than my “kid” age of 24 yet he still thinks about help the straight women in their hook up with women regardless of attention or not. You can’t know if it was common after you left if you weren’t there can you? You also prove my point. You also expect that most women are with bi or “pretend” to be vim with true heterosexual women, meaning women whom won’t hook up with women ever, are very rare. So, you say they are straight since for you women bisexual is the norm or what society says is straight for women. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/223 "2012-04-09T19:16:58Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > As a first approximation, anything that “everyone inherently knows” is wrong. You also ignore my explanation huh? ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/224 "2012-04-09T19:19:45Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I only have one woman in my family that I speak to, my mother. She is over 45. I don’t have any other close female relatives at all. **Your point is invalid**. It wasn’t really a point, yet. It was just a question. But it certainly raises a point - if have no women in your immediate family apart from your mother, it might go some of the way to explain why you can only draw your opinions about female sexuality from the media and hot chicks in clubs. If you had aunts and nieces and cousins and sisters and sisters in law and all those other sorts of female people in your family - like a lot of people do - you might think differently. Like a lot of people here do and maybe some of those people have no close female family members either for all I know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/225 "2012-04-09T19:20:03Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I know what pretend is. I’m not sure you do. The public stuff with Madonna was as pretend as Tom Hanks in Philadelphia or Harrison Ford in Indiana Jones - and that stuff is exactly as pretend as most of the girls you’ve seen kiss in clubs. (And you say you see that all the time, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/226 "2012-04-09T19:20:41Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > That’s interesting. The Chicago theater community seems a lot more, conventional, for lack of a better word, than I would have thought. I actually know more on-camera performers than theatre at this point, although there’s a ton of cross-over – most people do both, but most of the people I know focus on on-camera. Anyway, Chicago is a big small Midwestern town, which accounts for some of it. As I said, our attitude is very cooperative, and for the most part we’re not trying to be edgy or whatever to get attention, because we have less need to. From what I understand, the atmosphere in LA is _completely_ different. Frankly, not many of us discuss our real-life relationships, since no one is trying to be edgier than thou – it’s pretty irrelevant to our work as performers. I would guess that our actual demographics in terms of orientation pretty much dovetail with the overall demographics. Chicago itself is a liberal town, there’s not a lot of cause for anyone to be hiding here and therefore not a lot of cause to seek out acceptable industries to be out, moreso than other industries. For the most part people just don’t care that much. > [@](#): > > It’s only speculation, of course, but I’d be surprised if none of those straight, married actresses hadn’t had a lesbian fling or three when they were younger. Well, so what, really? If you experiment with anal once and then decide it’s not for you, does that make you a total anal whore? How does that even make sense? The only person who can give you the true answer as to a person’s sexual orientation is that person him/herself. And we’ve got peer reviewed studies demonstrating that people who identify as queer are a minority of the American population. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/227 "2012-04-09T19:29:08Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > It wasn’t really a point, yet. It was just a question. > > But it certainly raises a point - if have no women in your immediate family apart from your mother, it might go some of the way to explain why you can only draw your opinions about female sexuality from the media and hot chicks in clubs. > > If you had aunts and nieces and cousins and sisters and sisters in law and all those other sorts of female people in your family - like a lot of people do - you might think differently. Like a lot of people here do and maybe some of those people have no close female family members either for all I know. I don’t club anymore. My opinion is from girls I’ve known and all the lesbian couples here. From what I’ve heard from a few friends they say things like half their cousins are bi also, so again your point is mute. Also, I’m guessing you’re from Ireland, meaning it’s different from the US. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/228 "2012-04-09T19:31:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure you do. The public stuff with Madonna was as pretend as Tom Hanks in Philadelphia or Harrison Ford in Indiana Jones - and that stuff is exactly as pretend as most of the girls you’ve seen kiss in clubs. (And you say you see that all the time, right?) Like I said go back to my explanation on why most girls hook,up yet are still straight. Different from an actor in a movie. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/229 "2012-04-09T19:31:42Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > . . . You also prove my point. You also expect that most women are with bi or “pretend” to be vim with true heterosexual women, . . . [Woman pretending to be sexually attracted to vim](http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/4/3/2/2/9/webimg/553530180_tp.jpg). This, of course, proves that Fred is right. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/230 "2012-04-09T19:32:32Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > You can’t even prove my point on Hanks wrong can you? Your point was completely missing my point, and I’m planning to stay on topic, so there’s no need. > [@](#): > > I know what pretend is. But Hank’s pretend is far different from women in belowjob’s experience hooking up with women whe no one’s around. That is bisexual. I don’t think you do. You’re also conflating my point with belowjob’s. I said that the college-age women you are familiar with are pretending to be queer in order to attract the attention of guys like you. And they do this because it works, clearly, since you’re convinced that their make-believe lesbianism is real, and you think it makes them hot. To be even more blunt about this, they are manipulating you, and guys like you, so that you’ll fuck them – IOW they do this because _what they want is to be sexually involved with a guy._ > [@](#): > > Also, I’m guessing he is closer to your age than my “kid” age of 24 yet he still thinks about help the straight women in their hook up with women regardless of attention or not. > > You can’t know if it was common after you left if you weren’t there can you? You also prove my point. You also expect that most women are with bi or “pretend” to be vim with true heterosexual women, meaning women whom won’t hook up with women ever, are very rare. So, you say they are straight since for you women bisexual is the norm or what society says is straight for women. I can’t even parse this word salad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/231 "2012-04-09T19:32:44Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Like I said go back to my explanation on why most girls hook,up yet are still straight. Most women don’t hook up with other women. And yes, people vying for attention in a club can be just as phony as movie actors. Faking is faking. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/232 "2012-04-09T19:34:15Z")
Why are you people engaging this…person? It’s Spring Break - why are you biting? DFTT ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/233 "2012-04-09T19:36:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Why are you people engaging this…person? It’s Spring Break - why are you biting? > > DFTT I think they are just entertaining themselves. I don’t blame them - I’ve stopped engaging him but I keep reading the new responses, too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/234 "2012-04-09T19:38:08Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I am rather surprised that the campaign for ‘something else’ marriage has not taken off yet, give that there are almost 3 times as many of them as there are gay people. > > Or, in other words, WTF!?! Possible reasons someone would choose “something else” in a poll like that: They’re asexual, and don’t feel sexual attraction to anyone, regardless of gender. They’re pansexual, and don’t take gender into account when forming romantic bonds. They reject the binary gender paradigm altogether, and view terms like “heterosexual,” “homosexual,” and “bisexual” as essentially meaningless. They misread the question. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/235 "2012-04-09T19:42:50Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I don’t club anymore. My opinion is from girls I’ve known and all the lesbian couples here. From what I’ve heard from a few friends they say things like half their cousins are bi also, so again your point is **mute**. Also, I’m guessing you’re from Ireland, meaning it’s different from the US. Right. That aside, if your pals have told you that half of their cousins are bi, where have you got this 90% figure from? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/236 "2012-04-09T19:43:12Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > You think they a straight but they aren’t. Like belowjob said, it’s secretive. Could you please provide everyone with a list of who is straight or gay because we don’t know our sexual orientations. Apparently someone like you is more qualified to determine it? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/237 "2012-04-09T19:44:00Z")
Silly Fred…Curved women are obviously more attractive…not straight, nor bi, nor lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/238 "2012-04-09T19:46:55Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Your point was completely missing my point, and I’m planning to stay on topic, so there’s no need. > > I don’t think you do. You’re also conflating my point with belowjob’s. I said that the college-age women you are familiar with are pretending to be queer in order to attract the attention of guys like you. And they do this because it works, clearly, since you’re convinced that their make-believe lesbianism is real, and you think it makes them hot. To be even more blunt about this, they are manipulating you, and guys like you, so that you’ll fuck them – IOW they do this because _what they want is to be sexually involved with a guy._ > > I can’t even parse this word salad. What was your point? I hate girl on girl to honest, so no it’s not that I pay more attention to them it’s that they are everywhere. I’m sorry but since no girls exist that dom’t fake bi or are bi, no girls are truly straight. Yeah I’m saying it now NOO girls are straight truly. It must be in your genes. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/239 "2012-04-09T19:47:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Possible reasons someone would choose “something else” in a poll like that: > > They’re asexual, and don’t feel sexual attraction to anyone, regardless of gender. > They’re pansexual, and don’t take gender into account when forming romantic bonds. > They reject the binary gender paradigm altogether, and view terms like “heterosexual,” “homosexual,” and “bisexual” as essentially meaningless. > They misread the question. “Bisexual” also connotes a roughly 50-50 split with attraction to men vs. women, and/or that whatever the split is, it stays the same – one always prefers men, or always prefers women. I call myself queer rather than bisexual because “bisexual” doesn’t really fit with my experience of my sexuality at all. I’m certainly not pansexual (the bits matter, I’m just attracted to both kinds), but it’s neither a 50-50 split nor a static one. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/240 "2012-04-09T19:48:33Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Could you please provide everyone with a list of who is straight or gay because we don’t know our sexual orientations. Apparently someone like you is more qualified to determine it? You tell me? I didn’t even know until belowjob’s story that women were secret about this. With men I could say that men who are straight are never gay. For women, I don’t know at this point. Care to explain belowjob’s experiences then? ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/241 "2012-04-09T19:49:40Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Right. > > That aside, if your pals have told you that half of their cousins are bi, where have you got this 90% figure from? Half their cousins are bi but all their friends are bi. They have more friends than cousins. Not everyone has only half their cousins as bi. It could be more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=13)