# Are straight women less attractive than bi and lesbian women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227 "2012-04-09T03:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/262 "2012-04-09T21:16:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure you’ve rebutted any arguments. You’ve stuck to your basic story (based on your friends or your cousins or whatever it is) in the face of actual facts, you’ve changed your story a few times, and you’ve cycled through a few different reasons for the trend. The truth of it is this: not a lot of women are gay or bisexual, and it’s not even close to 90 percent. It’s probably become more trendy in recent years for girls to do this kind of thing to get attention from guys, but if they’re doing it for male attention, that’s a pretty good hint of what they’re actually into. It’s not happening because of Katy Perry or Madonna. How long has there been girl-on-girl porn? Decades upon decades? > > I’m sure more than 3.5 percent of women have kissed a friend or a stranger romantically or even had a fling with a woman, but it’s not 90 percent. And trying something once also would not make you bisexual to most people. It’s a sexual _preference_, not a list of your entire personal history. But even using some of the more ridiculous definitions you’ve tried to use, you still wouldn’t get anything like 90 percent. So I guess the good news is that women are not about to abandon men because they’ve all discovered they prefer other women. The bad news, as someone else said, is that if you see a girl kiss her friend at a club, she might be doing it to get you to leave her alone. Okay then, what is this real percentage of girls who have kissed girls or had flings then? What is it? Your 14%? Like I sait though, i know many others who will agree and belowjob also thinks it’s very high, so my point stands as well. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/263 "2012-04-09T21:39:47Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Answer my last post please. Which post? Perhaps you could re ask the question. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/264 "2012-04-09T21:56:15Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Which post? Perhaps you could re ask the question. Okay, so it’s not too common then with the men? That’s what I expected. If you’re wondering, I’m very untested in this matter as me I’ve heard women speaking about this before and on so,many videos that I’m frustrated with them thinking this happens with men also. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/265 "2012-04-09T21:56:47Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Okay then, what is this real percentage of girls who have kissed girls or had flings then? What is it? Your 14%? I don’t know, and I never guessed was 14 percent. I do think it’d be much closer to 10 percent than 90 percent. Perhaps you want to commission a scientific survey like The Williams Institute did? They’re more reliable than Internet surveys or your cousins. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/266 "2012-04-09T22:05:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know, and I never guessed was 14 percent. I do think it’d be much closer to 10 percent than 90 percent. Perhaps you want to commission a scientific survey like The Williams Institute did? They’re more reliable than Internet surveys or your cousins. No, because girls seem to be more likely at my age to brag about lesbianism to their friends than admit it on a survey. I know it’s far, far higher than 10% but whatever floats your boat right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/267 "2012-04-09T22:12:10Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > No, because girls seem to be more likely at my age to brag about lesbianism to their friends than admit it on a survey. This is another hint they’re bullshitting. I’ve known my share of lesbians and bisexual women and I’ve never seen them any of them brag about it to their friends. (Anyway, wouldn’t their friends already know?) None of them would be shy about answering a survey either. > [@](#): > > I know it’s far, far higher than 10% No, you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/268 "2012-04-09T22:13:59Z")
You claiming gay women as hotter based on porn is as about as scientific as me claiming all Chinese are morbidly obese based on sumo. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/269 "2012-04-09T22:15:19Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Interesting, your location proved me wrong…but your age hasn’t. Ask someone around 18-25 and they will have my own experiences. Deal. I’ll test your hypothesis by speaking with a significant number of 18-25 year olds about how many women of their age group are bi- or lesbian.\*\* You test mine by asking _hot women_ whether they are lesbians, or is it that they don’t want to hang out with you on account of you being…you. \*\*We’ll meet back here and compare notes. > [@Fred13](#): > > Yes I’m not lying all it took was a song. The song spurred every female celeb to do lesbian scenes, fake bisexuals, etc. I can’t giv you an actual study with the 90%since most girls don’t consider their lesbian experiences in surveys. You even have this woman above me who is blatantly bicurious not admitting to it, so that’s why the numbers seem lower.make sense? In the interest of science I listened to _I kissed a girl_. I am pleased to report that I am now a lesbian. This rocks. > [@Marley23](#): > > By the way, the Katy Perry song came out in mid-2008. The idea that this marks the start of a new generation or changed anyone’s sexuality is at least a goofy as anything else that has been posted in this thread. That’s what I thought until I became a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/270 "2012-04-09T22:15:36Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > You said women pretend to be bi for attention. Okay. I,added that belowjob’s experience is that women do this in private also away from others, so it’s not just for attention. If it’s private, how can you know it’s even happening, much less that 90% of women engage in it? > [@Fred13](#): > > Explain how it’s ignorant? I can’t understand why some you say I’m ignorant yet fail to back it up. Ha! This is priceless. Two different people directed you to two different, recent scientific studies proving your assertions wrong. How does that fail to back us up? Peer reviewed studies by well-known, respectable institutions carry a bit more weight than your friends’ anecdotes, I’m afraid. > [@Marley23](#): > > I think the great thing about this argument is that the estimated percentage of bisexual and lesbian women keeps going _up_ even though the facts showed the OP was off by around 86 percent. Somehow **Fred13** keeps deciding that there are even more of these women, not less. I know! I should be packing, but I’m laughing so hard, it keeps sucking me back in… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/271 "2012-04-09T22:23:23Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Makes sense. Thanks for the input. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/272 "2012-04-09T22:23:59Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Okay, so it’s not too common then with the men? That’s what I expected. If you’re wondering, I’m very untested in this matter as me I’ve heard women speaking about this before and on so,many videos that I’m frustrated with them thinking this happens with men also. Not so common with the men. But, bisexuality is much hipper for women than men. Men in the entertainment industry have every incentive to hide it. You’re not going to see Kanye West, for example, say in public that he likes guys. It would wreck his appeal with his core audience. You’re not going to hear Jamie Fox explain why he used get together with his buddies for vigorous games of nude basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/273 "2012-04-09T22:31:20Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Okay then, what is this real percentage of girls who have kissed girls or had flings then? What is it? Your 14%? Like I sait though, i know many others who will agree and belowjob also thinks it’s very high, so my point stands as well. Here’s the thing. You’re looking at a small subset. Here’s a survey (sorry, it’s United Kingdom, but that all I can find at the moment) that says [just over 25 percent of adults go to clubs.](http://www.scribd.com/doc/37679209/Night-Club-Visitors) So assuming the 25% of adults who go to clubs are equally men and women, that yields about 28.28 million women who club ([155.6 million x 72.7% age 18+](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States) x 25%) And here’s a study by [AskMen.com](http://AskMen.com) (and how much more scientific can you want?) that says [64% of women go to clubs to meet men](http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/50_dating_girl.html), so it’s very unlikely anyone in that group is a lesbian. But for the sake of your argument, let’s say that 90% of them might be open to a Lesbian experience. Add that to the 36% of women who club who aren’t there for the men (which doesn’t automatically mean they’re gay, but what the hell) and that gives you about 93% of 28.28 million who, in some universe, might conceivably be lesbian, or bi- or bicurious. That’s 26.3 million. What that means is that even if all the clubs in the United States are great big pools teeming girl on girl action, it still only represents 16.9 percent of adult American women. Which means that of ALL the other women in the U.S., if only 63 percent of them are straight, that still means the straights would be a majority. Still think your observational evidence is valid? The median age in the U.S. is 36.8 years old. How many people age 37+ do you see in the clubs? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/274 "2012-04-09T22:46:46Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > But, bisexuality is much hipper for women than men. Men in the entertainment industry have every incentive to hide it. You’re not going to see Kanye West, for example, say in public that he likes guys. It would wreck his appeal with his core audience. You’re not going to hear Jamie Fox explain why he used get together with his buddies for vigorous games of nude basketball. You guys know that a celebrity’s image is marketing, right? That they will present and cultivate the image that they believe will sell them the most records/movies/whatever, regardless of how closely it hews to reality? Entertainers are independent contractors. We have to be marketing savvy to get our paycheck. We talk about marketing, image, and our “type” (character type) all the time, even here where it’s a lot less competitive and cut-throat than LA. It’s necessary if we want the attention of the casting directors in town. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/275 "2012-04-09T22:55:30Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > In the interest of science I listened to _I kissed a girl_. I am pleased to report that I am now a lesbian. This rocks. Is that how it works? Stone the bloody crows. I listened to Queen earlier tonight. So I’m either a gay man or a straight man. Which is news to me and will rather startle and no doubt discommode my other half when I tell him. He’s going to miss the boobies and nether lady regions and no mistake. Colour me confused. Should I listen to some Dusty Springfield and join you on the newly liberated lesbian lady bus? Or do I need to listen to some Maria Callas to reassert my female heterosexuality? It’s a minefield. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/276 "2012-04-09T23:30:04Z")
If I were (still) a young horndog and I found that 90% of all the girls at the club were into other girls, my first reaction would be to find a different club. Just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/277 "2012-04-09T23:54:27Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > You claiming gay women as hotter based on porn is as about as scientific as me claiming all Chinese are morbidly obese based on sumo. Nitpick: Sumo is a Japanese sport. Now everyone, please carry on with lesbian troll fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/278 "2012-04-10T00:06:03Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > If I were (still) a young horndog and I found that 90% of all the girls at the club were into other girls, my first reaction would be to find a different club. > Just sayin’ So are you saying that you are no longer young, or no longer a horndog? Just askin’. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/279 "2012-04-10T00:11:25Z")
Is listening to the Katy Perry song “I Kissed a Girl”, and turning lesbian, anything like listening to the 1990’s song: “Me So Horny” by 2 Live Crew? Maybe a parental advisory should be recommended. All Hell could break loose! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/280 "2012-04-10T00:23:26Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > So are you saying that you are no longer young, or no longer a horndog? > > Just askin’. 🙂 Not as young as I once was. Enuf said. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/281 "2012-04-10T00:24:28Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Nitpick: Sumo is a Japanese sport. > > Now everyone, please carry on with lesbian troll fantasies. I thought of correcting that myself, but I realized the inaccuracy didn’t hurt the analogy one bit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=15)