# Are straight women less attractive than bi and lesbian women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227 "2012-04-09T03:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/282 "2012-04-10T01:08:27Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I’m 24. I didn’t think this question would beso offensive, sorry. I don’t buy it. By “it”, I mean that you could be older than 15 or that you had no idea this could be offensive. Or perhaps at least deeply, deeply ignorant. I call clueless child or passionate troll. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/283 "2012-04-10T01:10:47Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > In the interest of science I listened to _I kissed a girl_. I am pleased to report that I am now a lesbian. This rocks. > [@Dublin11](#): > > I listened to Queen earlier tonight. So I’m either a gay man or a straight man. Which is news to me and will rather startle and no doubt discommode my other half when I tell him. He’s going to miss the boobies and nether lady regions and no mistake. > > Colour me confused. > > Should I listen to some Dusty Springfield and join you on the newly liberated lesbian lady bus? Or do I need to listen to some Maria Callas to reassert my female heterosexuality? It’s a minefield. I’ll say. If I listen to the Who, will I become a Pinball Wizard? And if I listen to Elton John’s version, will I become a _gay_ Pinball Wizard? Instead, I’ll listen to Simon and Garfunkel. [I Am a Rock](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My9I8q-iJCI). ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/284 "2012-04-10T01:16:26Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > You guys know that a celebrity’s image is marketing, right? That they will present and cultivate the image that they believe will sell them the most records/movies/whatever, regardless of how closely it hews to reality? > > Entertainers are independent contractors. We have to be marketing savvy to get our paycheck. We talk about marketing, image, and our “type” (character type) all the time, even here where it’s a lot less competitive and cut-throat than LA. It’s necessary if we want the attention of the casting directors in town. Quite true. The brand is everything. There are actresses that I’ve worked with, in TV, before they became movie stars, who I know for a fact have had long term relationships with both women and men. But in the tabloids, they’re all caught up in will he/won’t he marry me drama. Or that bastard cheated on me drama (when they aren’t really even sleeping together.) My initial post was based on the fact that if you hang out in certain places, and roll with a certain crowd, it’s easy to get the idea the bi girls are the rule rather than the exception. It’s not true nationwide or even, for the glam crowd, over time. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/285 "2012-04-10T01:37:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is another hint they’re bullshitting. I’ve known my share of lesbians and bisexual women and I’ve never seen them any of them brag about it to their friends. (Anyway, wouldn’t their friends already know?) None of them would be shy about answering a survey either. > No, you don’t. You are older than me, so les/ bi girls at your age are diffent than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/286 "2012-04-10T01:38:22Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > My initial post was based on the fact that if you hang out in certain places, and roll with a certain crowd, it’s easy to get the idea the bi girls are the rule rather than the exception. It’s not true nationwide or even, for the glam crowd, over time. Could you please repost that in the Size 7 font and answer any questions **Fred13** might have? ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/287 "2012-04-10T01:38:46Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Deal. I’ll test your hypothesis by speaking with a significant number of 18-25 year olds about how many women of their age group are bi- or lesbian.\*\* You test mine by asking _hot women_ whether they are lesbians, or is it that they don’t want to hang out with you on account of you being…you. \*\*We’ll meet back here and compare notes. > > In the interest of science I listened to _I kissed a girl_. I am pleased to report that I am now a lesbian. This rocks. > > That’s what I thought until I became a lesbian. Are you even in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/288 "2012-04-10T01:43:10Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > > [@Namkcalb](#): > > > > You claiming gay women as hotter based on porn is as about as scientific as me claiming all Chinese are morbidly obese based on sumo. > > Nitpick: Sumo is a Japanese sport. I wrote exactly what I intended to write. You don’t really think the Gay4Pay “lesbians” in porn are real. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/289 "2012-04-10T01:46:36Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Could you please repost that in the Size 7 font and answer any questions **Fred13** might have? It doesn’t matter. H already agreed that most women are bicurious as well as women in entertainment or in career paths are also bi curious. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/290 "2012-04-10T01:47:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t buy it. > > By “it”, I mean that you could be older than 15 or that you had no idea this could be offensive. Or perhaps at least deeply, deeply ignorant. > > I call clueless child or passionate troll. No actually, I didn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/291 "2012-04-10T02:13:46Z")
So here’s the real question: [thread=647895] are all fish perverts, or just dirty dirty eels? [/thread] ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/292 "2012-04-10T02:15:39Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > So here’s the real question: [thread=647895] are all fish perverts, or just dirty dirty eels? [/thread] Both. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/293 "2012-04-10T02:41:57Z")
The OP seems to be under the misapprehension that sexuality can be objectively determined on the basis of one’s actions. This is false. Orientation is strictly a matter of self-identification. Kissing someone of the same sex for publicity, or attention, or money does not automatically make one bi. There are pictures on the internet of Bush kissing a Saudi prince and holding his hand and I doubt either of those men are bi. Women who have sex with women beccause they’re drunk, or to please a man, or to get paid, are not bi if they’re doing those things for reasons other than that they find women sexy, and even if they do they may still not consider themselves bi. I, personally, identify myself as a straight man. That being said, I have had sex with men in the past and probably will in the future. I don’t think of myself as bi and nobody but me has any right to say “You did X, that makes you bi.” The OP needs to stop thinking he can tell other people what they are and to stop thinking that porn stars, celebrities, and club whores are representative of the general population. (And didn’t Angelina Jolie admit to fooling around with her brother? Her orientation has got to be a LOT more complicated than “bi”.) ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/294 "2012-04-10T02:47:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The OP seems to be under the misapprehension that sexuality can be objectively determined on the basis of one’s actions. This is false. Orientation is strictly a matter of self-identification. > > Kissing someone of the same sex for publicity, or attention, or money does not automatically make one bi. There are pictures on the internet of Bush kissing a Saudi prince and holding his hand and I doubt either of those men are bi. Women who have sex with women beccause they’re drunk, or to please a man, or to get paid, are not bi if they’re doing those things for reasons other than that they find women sexy, and even if they do they may still not consider themselves bi. > > I, personally, identify myself as a straight man. That being said, I have had sex with men in the past and probably will in the future. I don’t think of myself as bi and nobody but me has any right to say “You did X, that makes you bi.” > > The OP needs to stop thinking he can tell other people what they are and to stop thinking that porn stars, celebrities, and club whores are representative of the general population. > > (And didn’t Angelina Jolie admit to fooling around with her brother? Her orientation has got to be a LOT more complicated than “bi”.) Lol I’ve never heard of this. A straight guy having had sex with a guy. Maybe you should be in the entertainment industry then. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/295 "2012-04-10T02:52:38Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > If it’s private, how can you know it’s even happening, much less that 90% of women engage in it? > > Ha! This is priceless. Two different people directed you to two different, recent scientific studies proving your assertions wrong. How does that fail to back us up? Peer reviewed studies by well-known, respectable institutions carry a bit more weight than your friends’ anecdotes, I’m afraid. > > I know! I should be packing, but I’m laughing so hard, it keeps sucking me back in… 😃 Because people like belowjob have seen all too much for themselves and they’re in it. I debuned your little theory by saying girls won’t admit to anything on those little surveys. They don’t say anything. You get anyone 18-30 agreeing with yours stats I would and I would be more satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/296 "2012-04-10T03:19:25Z")
All of this bizarre rigamarole about numbers aside, in my experience as A Genuine Lesbian people are people and have various degrees of attractiveness, but lesbians (and queer people in general) will often not fit in with and ignore… shall we say aesthetic trends and sensibilites?.. of the heterosexual community. It’s a different measuring stick in some ways. One of the aspects of being part of a subculture that is in many places hidden or somewhat hidden is that you end up wanting to identify yourself to other members of that subculture, and dress and personal style are a big way of signaling that. (I realize that calling lesbians a ‘subculture’ is a weird oversimplification in a lot of ways). I suppose what I’m trying to say is that mainstream America might not consider a woman with short hair who never wears makeup and so forth to not be conventionally attractive, but that doesn’t mean that she is not attractive, or not considered attractive in the community she wants to date in. If that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/297 "2012-04-10T03:24:30Z")
I can’t believe you guys are even arguing this point. Fred13, you are actually way off here. 100% of girls and guys in the 14-28 year age range are homosexual. The only reason anyone ever has straight sex, or gets into a straight relationship, is when a game of “straight chicken” goes too far. Everyone here who is throwing research and statistics at you is part of the denialist literature. Everyone, EVERYONE is gay, and would be in a gay relationship. Bi/gay girls ARE hotter, because straight girls don’t exist. And not existing is by definition not sexy/attractive. To think that you don’t already know this is silly. Why even ask such a silly question? It’s like asking, “is the sky blue? Does the pope wear a hat? Does a bear crap in the woods? Are bi/gay girls more attractive than straight girls?” Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/298 "2012-04-10T03:29:27Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Fred13, you are actually way off here. > > 100% of girls and guys in the 14-28 year age range are homosexual. The only reason anyone ever has straight sex, or gets into a straight relationship, is when a game of “straight chicken” goes too far. Everyone here who is throwing research and statistics at you is part of the denialist literature. Everyone, EVERYONE is gay, and would be in a gay relationship. > > Bi/gay girls ARE hotter, because straight girls don’t exist. And not existing is by definition not sexy/attractive. Well, I can think of no evidence that absolutely proves you are wrong, so I have no way of arguing against you. This young man is going to ring up his girl friend and dump her for being a lesbian ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/299 "2012-04-10T04:07:37Z")
> [@andygirl](#): > > All of this bizarre rigamarole about numbers aside, in my experience as A Genuine Lesbian people are people and have various degrees of attractiveness, but lesbians (and queer people in general) will often not fit in with and ignore… shall we say aesthetic trends and sensibilites?.. of the heterosexual community. It’s a different measuring stick in some ways. Yes. To get back to Fred’s original question, and setting aside his absurd misconceptions about the prevalence of lesbianism, most straight women, especially young unattached ones, because they actually want to have sexual relations with men, make considerable efforts to make themselves attractive to men, with clothes, makeup, hairdos, even surgery. No doubt most lesbians are also at some pains to make themselves attractive to women, especially other lesbians (with whom they will have a much better chance). However, although I expect there is quite a bit of overlap, the sort of look the average lesbian finds attractive is going to be, on the whole, a bit different from the sort of look the average straight male finds attractive, so they will be aiming at something a bit different. For this reason, to the eye of the average straight male (or even the average _youngish_ straight male) straight women, on the whole are virtually certain to look better than lesbians on the whole (no double entendré intended - and, of course, there will always be outliers and exceptions). Presumably, to the eyes of actual lesbians it will tend to be the other way around. On the other hand, it may well be true that amongst girls who go to clubs the prettier ones are more likely to tease the boys by _pretending_ to be lesbian or bi than are the plainer ones, who are likely to be (on the whole) less self confident, and more concerned that some dumb guy might mistake them for actual lesbians. (This is not based on actual observation - my clubbing days are long past - but it seems like human nature.) This may go some way toward explaining how Fred came by his peculiar belief that only plain girls are straight. > [@Fred13](#): > > It doesn’t matter. H already agreed that most women are bicurious No, he didn’t!:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/300 "2012-04-10T04:12:04Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Look, I’m 24 years old. Ever since Katy perry became a hit every girl and their best friend is bisexual. Errr… .well, OK, my best girl friend _is_ bisexual (although she’s never had sex with a woman) but that was LONG before this Katy Perry person. But I’m not. Definitely a Kinsey 0, total heterosexual. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure of your age, but in this generation it’s considered rare for a girl to not be bisexual. Yeah? Back when I was young and dating I used to run into men who’d assume that I’d be willing to do another woman in a threesome for him because, you know, _all women are bi_ but it wasn’t true then and it isn’t true now. I agree with the folks who say you should stop watching so much porn. And try to meet women places other than clubs, you might find women who aren’t gold-digging bitches. > [@](#): > > I you are older, it’s probably much different.l don’t think Perry was a hit in other countries besides the US and UK, so bisexual girls and lesbians aren’t as abundant in other countries. Excuse me? You’re saying that _Katy Perry_ turned 90% of the young women in the US and UK into lesbians and bisexuals? Holy shit! I had _no idea_ she had such power! It’s like the loaves and fishes miracle but with libido! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/301 "2012-04-10T04:22:56Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > What? Franklin D. Roosevelt’s wife. Please tell me you know who FDR was. Eleanor had lesbian affairs while married to Frank. While First Lady, even. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=16)