# Are straight women less attractive than bi and lesbian women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227 "2012-04-09T03:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/62 "2012-04-09T08:43:14Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > If you’re really interested in this whole scene in Hollywood, [Full Service](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093684/The-truth-hurt-anymore-How-1940s-U-S-Marine-turned-rent-boy-slept-Hollywoods-elite-threesomes-Edward-Wallis.html) gives a detailed account of mid century Hollywood morays. The same stuff is still going on today. I’m puzzled. How do the sexual habits of moray eels factor into this? Or did you perhaps mean _mores_? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/63 "2012-04-09T09:23:30Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > I meant that “there are” women. I’m not on a computer so grammar isn’t a big concern right now. Young man, if you want to be understood and taken seriously yes, grammar IS a big concern. All the time. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/64 "2012-04-09T09:34:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I’m puzzled. How do the sexual habits of moray eels factor into this? Or did you perhaps mean _mores_? It’s Miami. It’s near the ocean. Don’t ask about the manatees. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/65 "2012-04-09T10:11:51Z")
As another data point, all the lesbians I know personally (like at the level of going to their homes for a picnic) are overweight fifty-ish women. This must be balanced by the equally relevant fact that almost all the straight women I know at the same level are also overweight and fifty-ish. I attribute this to my being an overweight and fifty-ish man. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/66 "2012-04-09T12:14:25Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Where should this go? In My Humble Opinion. Moved from General Questions. **samclem** , Moderator ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/67 "2012-04-09T12:25:54Z")
Am I the only one to think “Whoosh!” big time? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/68 "2012-04-09T12:55:58Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I’m puzzled. How do the sexual habits of moray eels factor into this? Or did you perhaps mean _mores_? Yeah. Got me on that one. [http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/morays.html](http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/morays.html) ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/69 "2012-04-09T12:58:31Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Am I the only one to think “Whoosh!” big time? I had a different word in mind, but don’t think I’m allowed to say it. But I do think a lot of people here take the bait too easily. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/70 "2012-04-09T12:59:53Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Am I the only one to think “Whoosh!” big time? Whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/71 "2012-04-09T13:02:15Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Whoosh? The sound something makes as it flies over someone’s head. Your post is the something, and everyone responding to you is the someone. He doesn’t believe you are serious, and neither do I. In fact, I believe you know what “whoosh” means as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/72 "2012-04-09T13:06:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s not really offensive. It’s too ignorant and ill-informed to be offensive. Sort of like when your 5-year-old asks how babies are made. It’s more like when your 5 year old insists babies are made when mommy accidentally swallows a watermelon seed and daddy kisses her tummy. Yeah, it occurred to me after I posted that I didn’t really know if Angelina Jolie was bi-curious or not. Then I realized I didn’t care enough to post a retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/73 "2012-04-09T13:09:57Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > Whoosh? Wondering if you’re not serious but rather yanking our chains with a preposterous story. “Whoosh” is the sound of the joke zipping over someone’s head as they fail to get the joke. I don’t think you’re whooshing us (though I can’t say it’s impossible), but I do think you’ve made some preposterous generalizations from a very narrow range of observations. I suspect if you were in some place like Omaha or Nashville you’d have quite a different set of observations. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/74 "2012-04-09T13:22:06Z")
> [@](#): > > So straight girls in this millieu will compete with each other to date a few high status, good looking men. In the interim, they’re down for casual flings with other girls, because girls are prettier, smell nicer, and many girls who’ve been with both say sex with girls is better. I think that both you and the OP are confused about what straight means. Women tend to be more physically demonstrative than men. When I meet my female friends in public, we say each others’ names (OK, we SQUEAL each others’ names), and hug and kiss each other. No tongue, though. We might touch each other’s garments or jewelry, and give compliments on it. When I meet my male friends in public, we’ll greet each other without the squealing, and a hug might or might not be exchanged. I don’t kiss my male friends. Anyone who sees the goings on when I meet a female friend might think that we’re lesbians. Most women do smell nicer than most men. Prettier? I guess so. However, I am not sexually attracted to women. I don’t care how pretty they look and smell, they just don’t trip my trigger. And while men might not smell as pretty, most of them smell far more INTERESTING. To me, smelling a woman is like smelling a rose. Her perfume and/or natural scent smell nice, but they don’t trip any triggers. Men’s scents might not smell as pretty, but they appeal to my sexual nature. Speaking of scents, guys, lose the Axe. It doesn’t do anything for anybody. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/75 "2012-04-09T13:24:07Z")
> [@Fred13](#): > > First, I already know that nearly all girls are bi/bicurious/lesbian(90%) and that the vast majority of girls are experimental and get with girls all the time. But, this is for the very few girls who are actually straight. Are these girls usually unattractive? Everyone talks about how bi girls and lesbians are hot and guys always talk about them. The media portrays bi girls and lesbians as sexy too. But straight girls are never talked about or noticed, although they aren’t many to talk about. Is this because they’re the ones who are fat, ugly, or nerdy looking girls? Are straight girls straight just because they aren’t good looking enough to get a girl? > [@Fred13](#): > > Ok. And my sorurces are real life. This is a huge series of assertions covering hundreds of millions of girls. And how many of those girls have you met in real life? > [@Jenaroph](#): > > My sources are actual research. > > [URL=“[http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/FAQ.html#homosexuality](http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/FAQ.html#homosexuality)”] > [@Gary\_T](#): > > Ah, dear **Fred** , welcome to the Straight Dope, note that we deal in facts, and please understand that just saying “real life” won’t do. **Silophant, beowulff, boytyperanma, Tamex,** and I are all gently suggesting that OUR experience of real life – which I suspect is several times longer than yours for each of us – is quite different from what you maintain is yours. **Jenaroph** is kindly providing a cite from a well-known research institute. So while it’s possible (though I suspect quite unlikely) that 90% of the women you know are not straight, making statements like “I…know that nearly all girls are bi/bicurious/lesbian(90%)…,” [underlining mine] when in fact you do NOT _ **KNOW** _ this, and in fact it’s nowhere remotely close to true for _ **ALL** _ women, does not fly here. We want to see respectable cites for your contentions. Otherwise, please forgive us as we call “bullshit” on what you’re saying. Apart form the cite (based on research) and the clear explanation above of why your assumptions are hopelessly flawed, let me add my ‘experience of real life’. I live in a market town in England. There are no clubs or discos here. There are no overt (or otherwise) displays of lesbianism here. Yet you claim that 90% of the girls in this town are bi/bicurious/lesbian. Please justify that. > [@Fred13](#): > > IReally younger women my age are as I described. You’re right my experience isn’t everything though. Your experience of all the younger women your age in the World is effectively nil. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/76 "2012-04-09T13:24:43Z")
So merely being curious about another girl means you’re not straight? Even if you’ve never had sex with a girl and never intend to? Even if you only really think about sex with guys? I mean, 1 or 2 % bi-curious is not remotely the same thing as “bi”. And I know some butt-ugly lesbians. They laugh about the media image of lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/77 "2012-04-09T13:28:58Z")
I’m going to be a buzzkill and supply the Op with some factual info about the real world (so, the world outside porn and spring break pics). Read up on the [Kinsey scale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale) and the facts on bi-curiousness among women: Rating Description 0 Exclusively heterosexual 1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual 2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual 3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual 4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual 5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual 6 Exclusively homosexual > [@](#): > > Men: 11.6% of white males aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives. The study also reported that 10% of American males surveyed were “more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55” (in the 5 to 6 range). > Women: 7% of single females aged 20–35 and 4% of previously married females aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives. > 2% to 6% of females, aged 20–35, were given a rating of 5 and 1% to 3% of unmarried females aged 20–35 were rated as 6. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/78 "2012-04-09T14:08:04Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I think that both you and the OP are confused about what straight means. We can disagree about terminology. I call these women straight because that’s how they identify, and most of them will date a guy if it’s the right guy. The right guy is always high status via money, looks, fame, connections, or animal charisma. Regular guys don’t really have a shot. > [@](#): > > Women tend to be more physically demonstrative than men. When I meet my female friends in public, we say each others’ names (OK, we SQUEAL each others’ names), and hug and kiss each other. No tongue, though. We might touch each other’s garments or jewelry, and give compliments on it. When I meet my male friends in public, we’ll greet each other without the squealing, and a hug might or might not be exchanged. I don’t kiss my male friends. Anyone who sees the goings on when I meet a female friend might think that we’re lesbians. Quite a few of the actresses, models, makeup artists, costumers I’ve known in the industry do hook up with girls too. I’m not talking about acting out in a club to get attention, though there’s plenty of that. > [@](#): > > Most women do smell nicer than most men. Prettier? I guess so. However, I am not sexually attracted to women. I don’t care how pretty they look and smell, they just don’t trip my trigger. And while men might not smell as pretty, most of them smell far more INTERESTING. To me, smelling a woman is like smelling a rose. Her perfume and/or natural scent smell nice, but they don’t trip any triggers. Men’s scents might not smell as pretty, but they appeal to my sexual nature. > > Speaking of scents, guys, lose the Axe. It doesn’t do anything for anybody. What I’ve been told is that women have “softness” that men don’t. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re a woman of a certain age, married with children, living in heartland America? I can’t speak for the OP, but you’re the last person I’d expect to see up in the club, and then falling into bed with one of your girlfriends after a night of excess consumption. Maybe you’re old enough to recall Rob Lowe picking up a lesbian couple (one of whom was underaged) in Atlanta during the DNC, and having a videotaped threesome in a hotel room? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if one or both of these women are now married - to men - with children. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/79 "2012-04-09T14:15:25Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > So merely being curious about another girl means you’re not straight? Even if you’ve never had sex with a girl and never intend to? Even if you only really think about sex with guys? > > I mean, 1 or 2 % bi-curious is not remotely the same thing as “bi”. > > And I know some butt-ugly lesbians. They laugh about the media image of lesbians. Yes…the same as with bicurious men. A man can’t be curious but heterosexual. Society says for girls it’s different, but really it isn’t. If you are curious and attracted to your gender you are bicurious which I think is just bisexual in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Fred13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@Fred13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/80 "2012-04-09T14:20:04Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > We can disagree about terminology. I call these women straight because that’s how they identify, and most of them will date a guy if it’s the right guy. The right guy is always high status via money, looks, fame, connections, or animal charisma. Regular guys don’t really have a shot. > > Quite a few of the actresses, models, makeup artists, costumers I’ve known in the industry do hook up with girls too. I’m not talking about acting out in a club to get attention, though there’s plenty of that. > > What I’ve been told is that women have “softness” that men don’t. > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re a woman of a certain age, married with children, living in heartland America? I can’t speak for the OP, but you’re the last person I’d expect to see up in the club, and then falling into bed with one of your girlfriends after a night of excess consumption. > Maybe you’re old enough to recall Rob Lowe picking up a lesbian couple (one of whom was underaged) in Atlanta during the DNC, and having a videotaped threesome in a hotel room? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if one or both of these women are now married - to men - with children. OkaynI’m very confused on your opinion on his. Can I ask what you’re experience is? I remember you saying that only the higher up women do this behavior, but now you’re saying it’s all women? Do you work with models or something? Are these model straight women you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227/81 "2012-04-09T14:27:59Z")
Actors and others in the industry usually don’t follow sexual norms, and never have. For that matter, they don’t follow any other norms, either. Extrapolating behavior from this very small subset of women will lead to incorrect conclusions. I’m in my mid fifties, married, one adult child. I live in Texas, which isn’t what I’d call the heartland. I’ve never been clubbing, and for that matter, I’ve never been drunk. The most alcohol I’ve ever had in a 24 hour period would be the equivalent of 2 or 3 drinks (it was basically a supersized mojito). Quite possibly I’m old enough to have lived in the time when Rob Lowe (whoever he is, I know I’ve heard the name but can’t place him) picked up a lesbian couple. However, I try to avoid celeb news. Really, I don’t care about which actor is doing which other actor. I don’t care who is in rehab. And I don’t really care much about celebs’ sex lives, for the most part. I was rather surprised to find out that Raymond Burr was gay, but the only reason I remember it is because my father used to watch Perry Mason all the time, and I’d watch it with him, and I made a mental note to never bring this up in front of Daddy. The thing is, people who are in showbiz tend to have a distorted view of what people who AREN’T in the biz do and think. Yeah, some people love to follow certain celebrities, and will describe in tedious detail the minutiae of their obsession’s lives. But those people aren’t the norm, either…it’s just that the celebs will hear from and about these people more often, in a self-perpetuating cycle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-straight-women-less-attractive-than-bi-and-lesbian-women/618227.md?page=5)