# Are studios delibrately screwing up the sound on movies, as DRM tool ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079 "2008-05-29T22:43:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/1 "2008-05-29T22:43:28Z")
So while watching the new Indy film at the weekend I noticed the sound noticably cut out in a couple of scenes. I put it down to a screw-up but then I saw a thread elsewhere (at a subscription site so no point putting the link, though someone there linked this [projectionist’s forum](http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/externallink.cgi?http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f1/t009305.html;rt=1212098992125;referer=http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f1/t009305.html) which lends a little credibility to it), that claimed it was an actual deliberate DRM scheme by the studios (each copy of the film will have different sound artifacts so that they can track which cinema a particular bootleg came from). If this is true its a genuine low point in the entertainment industry’s contempt for their customers. Anyone know what the the dope is on this ? ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/2 "2008-05-29T23:09:07Z")
Two words: Urban Legend. Think about it for a second: How much work would it entail for the studio to put a different, distinguishable, traceable sound artifact into each and every copy that was distributed? And keep track of which artifact went with which copy went to which theater? I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it strains credibility to the breaking point. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/3 "2008-05-29T23:19:52Z")
[QUOTE=Roadfood] Two words: Urban Legend. [/QUOTE] I’m beginning to suspect not. Again nothing definitive (an unattributed blog) but it seems possible to me: > [@](#): > > You’ve probably seen this “CAP” (Coded Anti-Piracy) Coding yourself, which show up on the screen as little dots every so often. > > They can be pretty obtrusive, which is a complaint of many theatergoers. Why, after all, should we, the honest cinemagoing public, be penalized with these thingees just to nab dirty, little Jimmy? > > Well, I’ve been on the fence with CAP coding; like cigarette burns, they’re a minor visual nuisance that… sure, even though I recognize them as a distraction, don’t really “take me out of a movie”. That’s an argument I see and read all the time, that things like this “take” one “out” of the movie-watching experience. I suppose I see their point, but there are plenty of other things that have the power to take me out of movies – bad writing/direction/set design, EXIT signs, running lights, squeaky chairs, smelly cooked food, crinkly bags of chips, Hot Tamales on the floor, Justin Timberlake or The Rock acting, cell phones ringing. There will ALWAYS be some kind of distraction. I guess I was able to put CAP coding on the list, and enjoy myself enough. I’m a pragmatic guy, I intellectually know that I’m sitting in a theater watching a movie, and I understand the need for a movie studio to protect its property from theft. > > Anyway, this brings me to yet another, new form of anti-piracy protection. > > It seems that Paramount has taken it upon themselves to physically degrade the audio portion of the soundtrack to INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL (which I have taken to refer to in conversation as IJATKOTCS) to further identify prints and track down pirates. In the image to your right is a strip of film with the offending markings. See those two little blue strips about a frame and a half apart? Those will result in an audio dropout during the movie. > > That’s right. At certain points in certain prints of IJATKOTCS, the audience will actually HEAR part of the soundtrack dip in level. I guess, with certain projectors, this may even result in total silence for minute (my-newt) periods of time. Now, coming from a guy that was willing to accept little red dots on his screen, I gotta say this is going too far. I don’t remember the screening I saw suffering from any audio issues, but across the country word is spreading, with some theaters reportedly actually placing signs at the ticket booth that warn of this practice. [http://blog.masslive.com/screenwriting/2008/05/antipiracy\_measures\_becoming\_m.html](http://blog.masslive.com/screenwriting/2008/05/antipiracy_measures_becoming_m.html) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/4 "2008-05-29T23:25:01Z")
Why wouldn’t they just use the CAP? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/5 "2008-05-29T23:36:06Z")
I can’t say if they _are_ doing it, but as more and more theaters go digital, it will become easier and easier to do. I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. When I saw the new Indiana Jones movie, I didn’t notice the sound dropouts, but (a) it was digital and (b) it was a movie theater with other noises going on. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/6 "2008-05-29T23:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=Roadfood] Think about it for a second: How much work would it entail for the studio to put a different, distinguishable, traceable sound artifact into each and every copy that was distributed? [/QUOTE] Not much, given that: A. Soundtracks are printed optically on the film, and B. They’re already putting in custom visual artifacts with [CAP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coded_Anti-Piracy) and other measures. I don’t have any specific information about an audio version of CAP, though, but it wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Collaborator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Collaborator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Collaborator)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/7 "2008-05-30T00:29:30Z")
Keep in mind that each film is made out of 4-9 reels of film, about 15-20 min each. When they change over, you’ll often notice coloration and sound problems, especially right at the connection point. Some of the digital sound systems get somewhat screwed up when the change occurs. I very severely doubt there’s sound manipulation going on, because most piracy (aka camcorders and whatnot) is typically too crappy to pick up on sound fluctuations anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/8 "2008-05-31T07:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=Collaborator] Keep in mind that each film is made out of 4-9 reels of film, about 15-20 min each. [/QUOTE] Is this really true any more? Most of the movie theatres in this area have converted to semi-automated projectors, that use a giant reel with the entire movie on that. A single person works the projectors in all the theatres, basically just starting each projector at the specified time, and then being back to shut it off & rewind when it’s over – basically the only ‘projectionist’ in the whole multi-theatre complex. The movies used to come in individual reels, but now I believe they can be ordered as a single giant reel. A friend used to have a part-time job for a local theatre chain, splicing the individual reels onto a giant reel to use on their projectors (and un-splicing them to return them). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/9 "2008-05-31T09:40:36Z")
How high a resolution digital projector would you need for a cinema? I can see films being distributed on SSDs in the very near future. ---
**Author:** ![Wheeljack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@Wheeljack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheeljack)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/10 "2008-05-31T10:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] The movies used to come in individual reels, but now I believe they can be ordered as a single giant reel. A friend used to have a part-time job for a local theatre chain, splicing the individual reels onto a giant reel to use on their projectors (and un-splicing them to return them). [/QUOTE] They still come and go on 2000’ shipping reels, although I used to see a pair of 6000’ footers occasionally. Once they arrive they are assembled on the platters, and although there is usually a small drop out in the analog track (or a pop if they didn’t “bloop” the splice) it’s not really a problem for a digital system. Incidentally, the platter system loads from the center and takes up from the center, so rewinding isn’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/11 "2008-05-31T13:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] How high a resolution digital projector would you need for a cinema? I can see films being distributed on SSDs in the very near future. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s unlikely to be on physical media, rather Internet doownloads. Current standards are 2048 x 1080 and 4096 x 2160: [Digital cinema - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/12 "2008-05-31T16:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=beowulff] Well, it’s unlikely to be on physical media, rather Internet doownloads. Current standards are 2048 x 1080 and 4096 x 2160: [Digital cinema - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema) [/QUOTE] The bandwidth requirements for that seem rather extreme for current technology. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/13 "2008-05-31T16:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] The bandwidth requirements for that seem rather extreme for current technology. [/QUOTE] Well, current Digital movies are delivered on hard drives, but I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to start delivering them via downloads. After all, it could take a day or so per movie and still be faster than sending a hard drive across country. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/14 "2008-05-31T17:03:43Z")
Why do they need to put something in so obviously discernable to the watcher? With digital technology to en- and decode, what is the technological hurdle to putting in a marker that is beyond human (but not digital) perception? Doesn’t MP3 compression work by cutting out inaudible sound? What are the issues with placing a marker somewhere in this register, so it wouldn’t affect what’s heard but would be traceable? For visuals, I would think that it would be trivial to put a chroma-keyed (or whatever it’s called, I’m obviously not versed in the subject) chunk somewhere in a patch of background that changes from theater to theater. What film doesn’t have a bit of woods, a star field, a tile floor… somewhere where a subtle change in the overall patter wouldn’t be visible? Is it that pirated copies are done on such a low-tech scale that it _has_ to be of a large enough resolution to get captured? Is piracy on that scale the major problem, or is it theater complicity in copying from the originals? Since they’re not doing it that way, there’s probably something I’m missing. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/15 "2008-05-31T19:17:59Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] Why do they need to put something in so obviously discernable to the watcher? With digital technology to en- and decode, what is the technological hurdle to putting in a marker that is beyond human (but not digital) perception? [/QUOTE] Because a camcorder doesn’t catch a whole lot more than what a human eye can see. For this DRM crap to work they need to make it camcorder-discernible. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/16 "2008-05-31T19:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=beowulff] Well, current Digital movies are delivered on hard drives, but I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to start delivering them via downloads. After all, it could take a day or so per movie and still be faster than sending a hard drive across country. [/QUOTE] Since we’re talking terabytes for the 4K resolution (uncompressed), I rather doubt it. And data transfer from HDD to projector may have to be speeded up too. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/17 "2008-06-16T21:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=griffin1977] So while watching the new Indy film at the weekend I noticed the sound noticably cut out in a couple of scenes. [/QUOTE] I couldn’t say, as the drive-in theater we saw it at was right next to the World’s Busiest Train Tracks™. Probably 5 or 6 trains went by while the movie was going, and you had to struggle to hear the dialog during those times, let alone any background or incidental sound. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/18 "2008-06-16T23:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do they need to put something in so obviously discernable to the watcher? With digital technology to en- and decode, what is the technological hurdle to putting in a marker that is beyond human (but not digital) perception? Doesn’t MP3 compression work by cutting out inaudible sound? What are the issues with placing a marker somewhere in this register, so it wouldn’t affect what’s heard but would be traceable? If the markers are getting removed in the compression, how would they be traceable? These DRM markers have to be perceptible to humans, because otherwise the pirates could remove them without impacting the experience for their customers. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/19 "2008-06-17T12:19:12Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] A friend used to have a part-time job for a local theatre chain, splicing the individual reels onto a giant reel to use on their projectors (and un-splicing them to return them). [/QUOTE] I have to ask- if I might be permitted a small hijack- if your friend ever heard of anyone doing a Tyler Durden and inserting a single frame of pornography into an otherwise mainstream film? I figured Chuck Palahniuk made it up, but my Dad used to work in cinemas back in the late '60s and said “It wouldn’t have surprised me, but there weren’t really films with gratuitious T&A or porn in them in NZ then.” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079/20 "2008-06-17T12:57:42Z")
[QUOTE=griffin1977] …which lends a little credibility to it), that claimed it was an actual deliberate DRM scheme by the studios (each copy of the film will have different sound artifacts so that they can track which cinema a particular bootleg came from). [/QUOTE] What would be the point of that anyway? So they can narrow it down to several thousand untraceable people who’ve been through that particular cinema? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-studios-delibrately-screwing-up-the-sound-on-movies-as-drm-tool/451079.md?page=2)