# are TAB sites legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526 "2005-04-03T15:19:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/1 "2005-04-03T15:19:35Z")
I have often used TAB sites to get guitar solos etc to practice on. I would also like to put up a few of my own decoded TABs of popular songs on my website. Is this legal? I suppose there are two questions. What exactly in a song is copywrited? The lyrics, the tune, the arrangement? (probably all three?). What if I do my own arrangment/ TAB in a fingerpicking style of a known song that for the sake of argument has not been done in a guitar before (and also dont include the lyrics?) Probably the only similarity to the original song is the chord sequence. just want to know how close to the line it is permissable or practical to go before I get a nasty email from the copyright owner’s lawyers. cant find anything useful on google ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/2 "2005-04-03T16:45:22Z")
Cecil covered some aspects of music copyrighting [here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_324b.html), although that is to do with recording cover versions, not the notation. The one booklet of TAB I have doesn’t have any reference to the original composers in it, although there are notes about the author’s copyright (the author of the tab booklet). I would imagine that if you’re not trying to make money through a re-recording of the music, then you’re not breaking any copyright laws - but to be honest, I really have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/3 "2005-04-03T16:48:17Z")
I would have figured that guitar tabbing keys would have been as copywritted as an other part of a song, i.e., not at all. As far as I understand, the only illegal thing you can do is to take a recording of another bands song and sell it as your own, or bootleg their cd. It is polite to send out a letter asking for permission to remake a song, but not needed, legally. Haven’t you ever heard ads for those stupid kid friendly rerecording of pop songs? ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/4 "2005-04-03T17:09:18Z")
- - - Publishing music or lyrics isn’t legal without the song owner’s permission. The term “publishing” includes making recordings as well as distributing written versions. * * * - On the one hand, it might not get enforced. . . . . - On the other hand, early-on in the war between the RIAA and P2P file trading, one of the things that the RIAA did was enforce rights against a _lot_ of US sites that had lyrics and MIDI files of popular music. I noticed this because at the time I had an interest in finding MIDI songs. What little news coverage there was of it said that the record companies simply sent cease & desist letters to the ISP’s. I don’t know what the situation is now, US pages posting such files may have crept back up again in number–but at the time, there was a drastic drop in MIDI files on the web. ~ ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/5 "2005-04-03T17:15:20Z")
I seem to recall that, but today, I download lyrics to a song to refresh my memories, then I often download a midifiles so I can sing along. I have yet to feel the need for a midi, and yet not find it, but that may be due to my dislike of anything besides 80s New Wave. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/6 "2005-04-03T17:20:30Z")
> [@bras0978](#): > > I would imagine that if you’re not trying to make money through a re-recording of the music, then you’re not breaking any copyright laws - but to be honest, I really have no idea. While I cannot speak on tabbing and copyright directly, I do want to note that whether or not profit, or even money, is made does not impact whether or not something is a copyright violation in the United States. It can be one component of defense that use of a work is “Fair Use”, but that is up to a judge to decide. What I mean is, never assume you are in the clear because you make no money. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/7 "2005-04-03T17:59:15Z")
There are no such words as copywrite or copywritted. The word is copyright, inflected as copyrighted, and copyrighting. This may help when doing a search. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/8 "2005-04-03T21:53:53Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > There are no such words as copywrite or copywritted. > > The word is copyright, inflected as copyrighted, and copyrighting. This may help when doing a search. ouch! you are write! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/9 "2005-04-03T22:29:06Z")
Originally the main guitar tab site was at nevada.edu. In the early 90’s, they started getting cease-and-desist letters from publishers. They tried to avoid the legal troubles by adding a blurb about the tab being an interpretation, but in '96 pressure from EMI shut them down. > [@](#): > > OLGA at Nevada: > The original OLGA site at Nevada was closed in February 1996 as a result of legal threats from EMI. In the hopes it may reopen, here’s how to find it. The Nevada OLGA site is at ftp.nevada.edu in /pub/guitar ; access is sometimes difficult, although it has improved greatly since the introduction of mirror sites. You’ll probably have more success using the Nevada archive gopher server. A similar (although more dramatic) thing happened to the International Lyrics server - the most popular site for song lyrics. Since MP3s have taken off, publishers have focused on fighting file-sharing and have more or less forgotten about tab, lyrics, and MIDI sites. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/10 "2005-04-03T22:39:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I would have figured that guitar tabbing keys would have been as copywritted as an other part of a song, i.e., not at all. Not at all? How do you figure? All parts of a song are copyrighted, unless it was written a long time ago (before some time in the 1920), or the writer deliberately released it to the public domain. If you make your own arrangement for a song, that’s a derivative work, and requires the permission of the original copyright owner (which usually requires money). If you get permission and write your own arrangement, then you own the copyright to that arrangement. If someone else then performs and records your arrangement, they’ll need permission from both you and the original copyright owner, since they’re creating yet another derivative work. And if someone wants to make copies of that recording, they need permission from the composer, the arranger (you), and the performer. ---
**Author:** ![Thinktank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Thinktank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thinktank)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/11 "2005-04-03T22:51:12Z")
As I learned it in Broadcasting class, 50 years is the length of time a copyright holder’s got. I wasn’t even told renewal was an option. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/12 "2005-04-03T22:58:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not at all? How do you figure? I figured it is due to me being a big dummy. :smack: Recordings of a song are copywite, writh, …righted. As I understand it however, remakes are legal, and I would think notation made to make remaking easier would be legal. Please note that that is remakes, and not remixes. Of course, I am not a lawyer. P.S. An archive can be found here: [www.tabwiki.com](http://www.tabwiki.com) ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/13 "2005-04-03T23:26:02Z")
[Olga.net](http://Olga.net) may still have some of the discussions about the legality. Lyrics are clearly copyrighted. That is why the big tab sites (like olga/harmony central) only have a few lines of lyrics. Enough to indicate where guitar parts should go without quoting large sections. The guitar tab is controversial also. For example, The Rolling Stones Dead Flowers is basically 3-chords (A,D,G). If I put a tab up that has just those chords, am I violating copyright? On the one hand, I am clearly indicating how to play that particular song. On the other hand, there are a couple dozen other songs that share those same chords, and a copule thousand more if you are allowed to shift the key. 12-bar blues is the basis for so many songs it’s not funny. So where’s the line? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/14 "2005-04-03T23:33:32Z")
> [@Thinktank](#): > > As I learned it in Broadcasting class, 50 years is the length of time a copyright holder’s got. I wasn’t even told renewal was an option. This was never true at any time in American history. [Here’s a chart](http://www.authorslawyer.com/c-term.shtml) of copyright termination dates and their evolution since 1923. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/15 "2005-04-03T23:42:15Z")
I’m not sure what TAB is except for a cola type drink. But after reading some of the replies, I have questions about MUZAK, which if I understand correctly are remakes of copyrighted music but done in a way that the copyright does not apply. Someone in the know please clarify TAB, and MUZAK and if needed how they differ legally. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/16 "2005-04-03T23:53:35Z")
Re: Muzak: [Cecil speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_317.html) [Link’ed!](http://www.muzak.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/17 "2005-04-04T01:52:26Z")
That column doesn’t really answer **kanicbird’s** question about Muzak. The simplified answer is that the copyright owner of music has the right to determine the first performer to put the music on record. After that, anybody else can play the song by obtaining what’s called a compulsory license. [This is the Cecil column that covers the situation.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_324b.html) So copyright most certainly applies to Musak versions of other composer’s songs, in that they have to pay royalties for their use. But copyright does not prevent the company from using them in the arrangement of their choice. Tabs is an abbreviation of tablatures. No relation whatsoever to Musak. > [@](#): > > Music. A system of notation using letters, symbols, or other visual cues instead of standard notation to indicate how a musical piece is to be played. For example, guitar or banjo tablature typically consists of a diagram of the strings with finger positions indicated by numerals corresponding to the appropriate frets. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/18 "2005-04-04T07:11:22Z")
**Scott** , what I think what you are missing about remakes, is that if you remake a song, while no one can stop you, you still have to pay royalties to the song’s author. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/19 "2005-04-04T15:15:54Z")
> [@](#): > > § 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works36 > > Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: > > (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; > \*\* > (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;\*\* > > (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; > > (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly; > > (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and > > (6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission. > [@](#): > > A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work” [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html) Tablature is a derivative work. The copyright holder has the exclusive right to produce derivative works. As a matter of law, publishing tablature without copyright owner’s consent is infringement. In some cases, as others have pointed out, the fair use doctrine might apply, but other than that, the reason that the copyright holders are not enforcing their rights is that they have bigger fish to fry, or simply don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526/20 "2005-04-04T15:22:13Z")
[Good discussion of the lack of a profit requirement even for criminal penalties](http://www.idea.piercelaw.edu/articles/39/39_4/16.Wu.pdf) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-tab-sites-legal/297526.md?page=2)