# Are the "99" percent protestors getting too much press coverage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008 "2011-10-18T04:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/101 "2011-10-20T02:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > …The amount of student loans taken out last year crossed the $100 billion mark for the first time and total loans outstanding will exceed $1 trillion for the first time this year. Americans now owe more on student loans than on credit cards, reports the Federal Reserve Bank of New York… [http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/story/2011-10-19/student-loan-debt/50818676/1](http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/story/2011-10-19/student-loan-debt/50818676/1) Seems likely something will need to be done, no? Maybe you can say, well, OK, you majored in Art History, what were you thinking? Does anyone have a handle on how many MBA’s we are going to graduate this year? Kids who spent the best years of their lives earning their platinum ticket to the Good Ship Lollipop, only to find out not only has that ship sailed, but sank with all hands. So now what? They’ve mortgaged a future they may not actually have so that they could qualify for that future. Which seemed a good idea at the time, since that future held some charming potential. And then we get to the poor dumb schmucks who spent $20,000 so that can put B.A., Lib Arts on their resume. And it doesn’t really that much matter who’s money it was, its gone, and they don’t have it. So, yeah, I imagine we’ll come to some kind of arrangement. What else, hassle and harass half a million baristas and bicycle messengers to cough up $500 a month for forty years? And lastly, not all that crazy about shrugging off money like that. But if you are going to do it, at least let it be for an educated citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/102 "2011-10-20T02:05:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I though we already disposed of the silly idea of grabbing forum posts from users to put them as examples of what \*\*all \*\*the people in a movement agree with, besides, just by looking at the comments, it is clear that many do not agree with the poster. You’re not the boss of him! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/103 "2011-10-20T02:09:21Z")
there is no spokesman ,so you are pulling the demands out of your collective right wig asses. Turn off Rush and go down to a demo . Here are the demands that seem to be universal. 1. the system needs to be fixed. too big to fail is a danger to the stability of our economic system. The banks have to be broken up. 2. There has to be accountability. The bankers destroyed the economic system and walked away free. 3. There has to be serious efforts to increase jobs. The Repubs have shown they will vote against a jobs bill. We have to scare them enough to see they risk their seat in congress and the senate. 4. Foreclosures have to be halted. The banks were doing robo signing to pretend they had actually done the official paperwork to foreclose homes. It was a disgusting display. They foreclosed on homes they did not even have title to. They faked the paperwork and took them to court. That has to be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/104 "2011-10-20T02:30:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > What color of pony? > > [http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2005/06/13/even\_free\_wifi\_needs\_a\_business\_model.php](http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2005/06/13/even_free_wifi_needs_a_business_model.php) > > I was not kidding when I told you I knew about efforts to get free connections to all, and they have not only altruistic reasons for that. What it is clear is that there have been efforts from industry (and not just because customers are not ordering enough coffee) to kill any efforts from local governments from offering free connections in the USA, and yet, I have seen that new industries and technologies can come out of things like free wi-fi, so it is not just pie in the sky talk. > > As I mentioned, there is a lot that that Forbes article leaves out, although is sympathetic and the point stands that many well to do will ignore the protesters at their own peril, the writer still had to make protesters sound ridiculous thanks to the wording in the survey questions, the writer in the end did not offer explanations to show that those demands are more than just pony talk. I honestly don’t know what point you’re trying to make with that 6 year old article. Per the wikipedia article on internet access by country: USA: 79% Japan: 80% Germany: 82% UK: 85% France: 80% Italy: 56% Spain: 67% Canada: 82% South Korea: 83% I’d say we’re pretty much right in there with the other large industrial nations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/105 "2011-10-20T02:34:34Z")
Only ones we beat were Basket-Case Italy and Baja France. And beat by _Canada_? Canada? You fuckin’ kidding me? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/106 "2011-10-20T02:56:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I honestly don’t know what point you’re trying to make with that 6 year old article. That I was not dealing with ponies for starters. But here is another example of what we do not have in the USA: > **[Travelling to Taiwan? Free public Wi-Fi launched in Taipei.](https://thenextweb.com/news/travelling-to-taiwan-free-public-wi-fi-launched-in-taipei)** > > Taipei city government has just finished implementing the first stage of introducing free public wi-fi throughout Taipei > [@](#): > > Free Wi-Fi is something Internet addicts are constantly looking for, especially when travelling. Next time you’re flying to Taiwan, perhaps to catch this year’s IDEAS show 2011, looks like you’re covered as the Taipei city government has just finished implementing the first stage of introducing free public wi-fi throughout Taipei. > > Taiwan tech blog TechOrange reports that currently, the free wireless Internet connection is limited to public areas such as the MRT, shopping areas, office areas, hospitals, and libraries. By October, the Taipei City Department of Information Technology estimates that an average of 500,000 people will be using the free service, once the network has expanded to major streets and avenues, residential areas, densely populated public places and at least 800 city buses. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Per the wikipedia article on internet access by country: > > USA: 79% > Japan: 80% > Germany: 82% > UK: 85% > France: 80% > Italy: 56% > Spain: 67% > Canada: 82% > South Korea: 83% > > I’d say we’re pretty much right in there with the other large industrial nations. And what percentage of that is free or so cheap that all have access to it? Other countries have arrived to the conclusion that free or very affordable access is a right or a very good thing to have for the public good. [http://www.fastcompany.com/1760834/the-wi-rich-get-wi-richer-south-koreas-seoul-to-add-free-municipal-wi-fi](http://www.fastcompany.com/1760834/the-wi-rich-get-wi-richer-south-koreas-seoul-to-add-free-municipal-wi-fi) [http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/a-human-right-will-the-internet-go-truly-free-1709/](http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/a-human-right-will-the-internet-go-truly-free-1709/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/107 "2011-10-20T03:07:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That I was not dealing with ponies for starters. But here is another example of what we do not have in the USA: > > [Travelling to Taiwan? Free public Wi-Fi launched in Taipei.](http://thenextweb.com/asia/2011/07/05/travelling-to-taiwan-free-public-wi-fi-launched-in-taipei/) > > And what percentage of that is free or so cheap that all have access to it? Other countries have arrived to the conclusion that free or very affordable access is a right or a very good thing to have for the public good. > > [http://www.fastcompany.com/1760834/the-wi-rich-get-wi-richer-south-koreas-seoul-to-add-free-municipal-wi-fi](http://www.fastcompany.com/1760834/the-wi-rich-get-wi-richer-south-koreas-seoul-to-add-free-municipal-wi-fi) Do you know the difference between a country and a city? > [@](#): > > [http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/a-human-right-will-the-internet-go-truly-free-1709/](http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/a-human-right-will-the-internet-go-truly-free-1709/) Spain and Greece. Great role models. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/108 "2011-10-20T03:36:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you know the difference between a country and a city? Yes, and as mentioned the country is next. But since most do live in cities this point is not a big issue for this item. Of course, declaring something not valid just because a cite is “old” was just an effort to avoid the fact that this is not just an imaginary point and there are more current examples. It is also not imaginary that there are well funded groups that are still actively preventing local governments from looking for the common good; still, several cities, even in the USA and the UK, already offer universal wi-fi access, either free with advertisements or with limits. > **[Municipal wireless network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_wireless_network)** > > A municipal wireless network is a citywide wireless network. This usually works by providing municipal broadband via Wi-Fi to large parts or all of a municipal area by deploying a wireless mesh network. The typical deployment design uses hundreds of wireless access points deployed outdoors, often on poles. The operator of the network acts as a wireless internet service provider. > Municipal wireless networks go far beyond the existing piggybacking opportunities available near public libraries and ... > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Spain and Greece. Great role models. And Finland, Estonia, France, Singapore; oh well, in any case this is not a pie in the sky thing. The point stands, free internet is not in the realm of fantasy and there are other reasons besides social justice why an item like that should be considered. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/109 "2011-10-20T03:44:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > What color of pony? It’s not a matter of color, it’s a matter of . . . season. :o ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/110 "2011-10-20T06:43:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, and as mentioned the country is next. But since most do live in cities this point is not a big issue for this item. Of course, declaring something not valid just because a cite is “old” was just an effort to avoid the fact that this is not just an imaginary point and there are more current examples. > > It is also not imaginary that there are well funded groups that are still actively preventing local governments from looking for the common good; still, several cities, even in the USA and the UK, already offer universal wi-fi access, either free with advertisements or with limits. > > [Municipal wireless network - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_wireless_network) > And Finland, Estonia, France, Singapore; oh well, in any case this is not a pie in the sky thing. The point stands, free internet is not in the realm of fantasy and there are other reasons besides social justice why an item like that should be considered. Look. Most of these counties are very densely populated and the economics of “free” internet is an entirely different matter as compared to geographically dispersed country like the US. If you take Korea, 25% of the population lives in or around Seoul. And Seoul is where they are concentrating their efforts. There have been any number of initiatives in the US to get a single city wired for the internet. And Singapore is a fucking city state. The idea that what might work in those places is a good model for this US is ludicrous. Just because it makes sense to get a metropolis like Seoul or Singapore wired for internet access doesn’t mean it makes economic sense to do the same thing for Dogpatch USA. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/111 "2011-10-20T13:56:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Look. Most of these counties are very densely populated and the economics of “free” internet is an entirely different matter as compared to geographically dispersed country like the US. If you take Korea, 25% of the population lives in or around Seoul. And Seoul is where they are concentrating their efforts. There have been any number of initiatives in the US to get a single city wired for the internet. And Singapore is a fucking city state. The idea that what might work in those places is a good model for this US is ludicrous. Just because it makes sense to get a metropolis like Seoul or Singapore wired for internet access doesn’t mean it makes economic sense to do the same thing for Dogpatch USA. I already noticed that for Dogpatch it will be different, the protests BTW are not taking place in Dogpatch either and the devil is always in the details. It is those details where you are hung up, and they have merit on many places, but for the subject at hand they are only on the hard territory not the fantasy one. And as mentioned before there are other reasons rather than altruistic ones that make this effort a good one IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/112 "2011-10-20T14:55:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sorry, we are not all equally guilty. Under free-market capitalism the customer can never be ‘guilty’ of anything by definition. That’s the whole point about markets and how doody dar damn efficient they supposedly are at allocating resources if left to go for it. It’s the system that screwed up. It’s that unregulated markets don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008/113 "2011-10-22T07:48:50Z")
I thought it was interesting to note that most of the “Occupy [City]” things in Australia seemed to more or less peter out on the Monday\*… when everyone had to go back to work. 😛 There are a few “Die-Hards” still there in many places, but there’s been an Aboriginal Tent Embassy on the lawn in front of the Old Parliament House in Canberra for 40 years now and that generally doesn’t get on the news anymore unless something especially interesting has happened there. Wiser people than myself have observed that a lot of the protestors here didn’t seem to genuinely have much to complain about, at least compared to their counterparts in the US and EU. \*With the exception of Melbourne, where there were quite a few protestors who had to be evicted and there was a bit of a kerfuffle over it [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-99-percent-protestors-getting-too-much-press-coverage/600008.md?page=5)