# Are the actions of BLM wise or foolish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278 "2015-11-22T15:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/181 "2015-12-04T15:31:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So you’re saying you really don’t understand the difference between attacking nuclear families and objecting to a **requirement** that families have to be nuclear? since there is no requirement that families have to be nuclear there is nothing to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/182 "2015-12-04T15:54:25Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > People who murder police officers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Some states, like [New York](http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article125.htm), even have separate statutes for the crime of killing a police officer. > > Police officers who murder people, on the other hand? It’s a mixed bag. Sometimes they’re prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, sometimes the DA takes a dive due to the inherent conflict of interest in prosecuting people her or she relies on to do their job, sometimes charges are never filed. When they are, juries are reluctant to actually convict, possibly related to the DA conflict, possibly because they value police officers more than black people. There are cases that are worthy of attention. They are not restricted to skin color. Focusing on cases like Brown and Martin weakens their message. Interrupting people and businesses (completely disconnected to events) is passive aggressive behavior that further alienates people from their message. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/183 "2015-12-04T16:27:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > 34 officers died this year alone yet the focus is on a handful of cases that are already going to court. Wow, that is an extremely low number of deaths historically, why, last year we had 117 and this year is now almost over with only 34 so far. There hasn’t been a lower yearly number since 1880! In 2007 there was 192 and in 2001 there was 241. Maybe the rise of BLM has been great for reducing danger to police officers? Since we’re playing pretty fast and loose with correlation vs causation in this thread anyway that assumption should fit right in with the theme. [http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html](http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/184 "2015-12-04T16:33:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There are cases that are worthy of attention. They are not restricted to skin color. Focusing on cases like Brown and Martin weakens their message. Cases like Brown and Martin weren’t even being investigated prior to the protests. That’s what its about, not getting convictions, but actually investigating and letting a jury decide. Why that seems so hard to grasp for some people I have no idea. > [@Magiver](#): > > Interrupting people and businesses (completely disconnected to events) is passive aggressive behavior that further alienates people from their message. Hasn’t almost every protest in the history of protests featured “interrupting people and businesses (completely disconnected to events)”? Any march causes traffic to be blocked and businesses along the march route to be inconvenienced. Why is this particular protest raising so much ire in you? Are you always this angry at every protest that ever happens? Or is this one special for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/185 "2015-12-04T16:48:49Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Cases like Brown and Martin weren’t even being investigated prior to the protests. That’s what its about, not getting convictions, but actually investigating and letting a jury decide. Why that seems so hard to grasp for some people I have no idea. yes they were. Where are you getting this from? > [@Airbeck](#): > > Hasn’t almost every protest in the history of protests featured “interrupting people and businesses (completely disconnected to events)”? Any march causes traffic to be blocked and businesses along the march route to be inconvenienced. Why is this particular protest raising so much ire in you? Are you always this angry at every protest that ever happens? Or is this one special for some reason? No. Many protests are people with signs at locations specific to their grievance. The “Occupy Wallstreet” was along the lines of what you’re describing and that went nowhere and alienated everybody right down to the ants on the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/186 "2015-12-04T16:55:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Or possibly because their guilt has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, under the same standard applied when someone murders a police officer. > > Regards, > Shodan Possibly, sure; we’re talking about multiple, disconnected events, after all. Now, if there was an independent agency in each state responsible for investigating and prosecuting crimes where the accused was a police officer, and uniform reporting standards for incidents where police officers used force, then perhaps these suspicions could be put to rest. Or, they’d be vindicated. Only one way to find out. > [@Magiver](#): > > There are cases that are worthy of attention. They are not restricted to skin color. Focusing on cases like Brown and Martin weakens their message. The Martin case was pre-BLM and thus unrelated to it. The Brown case revealed systematic injustice and racism in the FPD and brought about reform of the Ferguson city government, so it both provided evidence for their message and got results, even though the shooting of Brown was legally justified. > [@Magiver](#): > > Interrupting people and businesses (completely disconnected to events) is passive aggressive behavior that further alienates people from their message. Hard to say whether that’s true, the movement is getting results, but it’s impossible to prove which actions are directly responsible and which aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/187 "2015-12-04T17:08:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes they were. Where are you getting this from? I think investigated was the wrong word choice and not precisely what I was getting at, they didn’t go to a grand jury or have the evidence presented to a jury prior to protests. Investigations were dropped without going any further just based on the shooter’s word. That’s what people were pissed about. Can we actually discuss the points being made now that we’ve cleared up the semantic confusion? > [@Magiver](#): > > No. Many protests are people with signs at locations specific to their grievance. The “Occupy Wallstreet” was along the lines of what you’re describing and that went nowhere and alienated everybody right down to the ants on the sidewalk. CPS went on strike a few years back. Rallies occurred downtown in front of CPS headquarters and on Michigan avenue. Both protests disrupted traffic, commuters, and businesses that had nothing to do with the issues between CPS and the teachers union. The civil rights marches in Alabama went over public roads and bridges, and disrupted business along the route. All protests disrupt normal business, that is the point. For some reason you are only focusing this objection on this particular protest. Why? What is it about this particular protest that has you so upset when they are just doing what every protest ever has done? Or is it just protests for which you happen to oppose the cause? You know its ok to just say that you disagree with their cause without this ridiculous “protests should not disrupt anyone or anything to be effective” nonsense. It’s a ludicrous complaint. Just be straightforward about why you don’t like BLM, don’t make a complaint that can apply to almost every protest that has ever taken place. Also, what have you to say about that 34 deaths you were clutching your pearls so tightly about? Did the statistics I posted change your perspective on that? I noticed you haven’t replied to that, which was my first response to you, and skipped right to this one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/188 "2015-12-04T19:49:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I think investigated was the wrong word choice and not precisely what I was getting at, they didn’t go to a grand jury or have the evidence presented to a jury prior to protests. Investigations were dropped without going any further just based on the shooter’s word. That’s what people were pissed about. No, investigation in neither the Trayvon Martin nor the Michael Brown cases was dropped based on the shooter’s word. The Martin case didn’t go to a grand jury because the prosecutor didn’t think she could get an indictment. Darren Wilson did go to a grand jury, and again, no indictment. AFAIK all police shootings are investigated. If the suggestion is that all police shootings should go straight to a grand jury or straight to trial, then the Martin and Brown cases are not good demonstrations of that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/189 "2015-12-04T20:03:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, investigation in neither the Trayvon Martin nor the Michael Brown cases was dropped based on the shooter’s word. > > The Martin case didn’t go to a grand jury because the prosecutor didn’t think she could get an indictment. Darren Wilson did go to a grand jury, and again, no indictment. > > AFAIK all police shootings are investigated. If the suggestion is that all police shootings should go straight to a grand jury or straight to trial, then the Martin and Brown cases are not good demonstrations of that. > > Regards, > Shodan (sigh) Ok lets not redo all the previous threads on these cases and just drop the subject. I don’t want to derail the thread going over things that have been gone over ad nauseum already on these boards many times over. If you don’t want to understand what these protests are about then I can’t help you. Just assume whatever you want then. However, if there was something that really bothered me that I didn’t fully understand, I’d make an effort to try to understand it a bit better in the hopes that maybe it wouldn’t bother me so much with more information, but to each his own I guess. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/190 "2015-12-04T21:13:22Z")
So, Jesse Jackson will lead another protest on Sunday. I plan to observe it and see if it’s peaceful. If it’s not and they attempt to foolishly block access to any store , I will confront the trespassers and call them every name in the book. I’m tired of letting the mob rule. > **[Rev. Jesse Jackson to Lead March Down State Street in Memory of Laquan McDonald](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/rev-jesse-jackson-to-lead-second-march-in-protest-of-laquan-mcdonald/61560/)** > > The Rev. Jesse Jackson will lead another rally on a busy shopping day in Chicago in response to the release of the dashcam video showing the fatal shooting of Laquan McDonald last month. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/191 "2015-12-04T22:47:57Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > So, Jesse Jackson will lead another protest on Sunday. I plan to observe it and see if it’s peaceful. If it’s not and they attempt to foolishly block access to any store , I will confront the trespassers and call them every name in the book. I’m tired of letting the mob rule. > > [Rev. Jesse Jackson to Lead March Down State Street in Memory of Laquan McDonald – NBC Chicago](http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Rev-Jesse-Jackson-to-Lead-Second-March-in-Protest-of-Laquan-McDonald-360579831.html) Videotape that shit, and post a link, will ya? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/192 "2015-12-05T14:11:28Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you don’t want to understand what these protests are about then I can’t help you. Just assume whatever you want then. However, if there was something that really bothered me that I didn’t fully understand, I’d make an effort to try to understand it a bit better in the hopes that maybe it wouldn’t bother me so much with more information, but to each his own I guess. You claimed the cases weren’t being investigated, that the investigations were dropped, that this was based only on the shooter’s word, and that bringing them before a jury or grand jury would clear it up, and I am the one who doesn’t understand and doesn’t seek information. Uh huh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/193 "2015-12-05T14:18:10Z")
It’s entirely possible that most black people in America are delusional about mistreatment, and most white people know better how black people are actually treated. But if so, this would the _first time in American history_ that white people overall had a better understanding of how black people were really treated, and the first time that (as a group) white people’s dismissal of the claims of mistreatment of black people was correct. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/194 "2015-12-05T16:01:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s entirely possible that most black people in America are delusional about mistreatment, and most white people know better how black people are actually treated. But if so, this would the _first time in American history_ that white people overall had a better understanding of how black people were really treated, and the first time that (as a group) white people’s dismissal of the claims of mistreatment of black people was correct. It’s one thing to identify a real problem and another to take what is a small problem, hyper focus on it to make it much larger than it actually is and then wallow in it. The gross infatuation the BLM movement with victimhood does not help anyone. And it helps black people the least. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/195 "2015-12-05T16:50:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It’s one thing to identify a real problem and another to take what is a small problem, hyper focus on it to make it much larger than it actually is and then wallow in it. The gross infatuation the BLM movement with victimhood does not help anyone. And it helps black people the least. I think it’s a very large and significant problem. And I think BLM has been instrumental in making body-cameras on cops an issue that nearly everyone agrees on (among other issues), so I think it is helping black people (and America and Americans in general). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/196 "2015-12-05T17:28:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It’s one thing to identify a real problem and another to take what is a small problem, hyper focus on it to make it much larger than it actually is and then wallow in it. The gross infatuation the BLM movement with victimhood does not help anyone. And it helps black people the least. And those poor black people are just too stupid to figure that out on their own? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/197 "2015-12-05T18:59:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And those poor black people are just too stupid to figure that out on their own? Out of curiosity do you think there’s a correlation between poor test standards/school dropout rates, and unemployment rates/prison rates? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/198 "2015-12-05T19:01:24Z")
I think this train wreck of a thread has actually given me new insight into the whole matter, so I am glad I wrote the OP. I am now seeing the situation as one where a bunch of people are yelling “The forest is burning! It’s on fire!” and a bunch of other people are like “Well, look here at this tree, doing just fine, stop yelling so much it’s giving me indigestion.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/199 "2015-12-05T19:13:10Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I think this train wreck of a thread has actually given me new insight into the whole matter, so I am glad I wrote the OP. > > I am now seeing the situation as one where a bunch of people are yelling “The forest is burning! It’s on fire!” and a bunch of other people are like “Well, look here at this tree, doing just fine, stop yelling so much it’s giving me indigestion.” Congratulations for getting the emphasis exactly backwards. Yeesh! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/200 "2015-12-05T20:49:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes, BLM has made it’s demands. They’ve shut down markets and intimidated police. And the police have responded with the only thing that makes sense and that’s to stand back and watch it all burn to the ground. How many officers have been shot this year? 34. Nobody marching and shutting down businesses for them. How many were shot in cold blood? Did Ricardo Galvez make the news when a group of 3 walked up to him in his car and started shooting? Is Ricard Galvez a local police officer? I mean, like, did he live in your area? Apparently, you didn’t hear about it on the news, so I’m assuming you must have been close? And, big shocker, there’s no doubt here - the people who did the shooting are booked, being held without bail, and are likely to get the book thrown at them. Because that’s what happens to criminals who shoot LEOs. There’s no wailing or moaning about justifications or reasons, there’s not a whole lot of time where the criminal gets put on paid leave and their friends in the prosecution try to sort the mess out. They get put in jail without bail and put on trial for their crimes. You know why those stories don’t get a whole lot of air time? Because dog bites man is pretty normal behavior. It’s expected, albeit unfortunate, that police die in the line of duty or are murdered, and that their murderers are arrested and brought to justice. It’s _not_ expected or acceptable for policemen to commit murder and then for their respective departments to have their back and justice to be delayed or refused for so long. > [@](#): > > Make no mistake, there is no law on the books that says they need to flush out drug dealers or thieves or any other criminal. They can just as easily drive around listening to tunes for 8 hrs waiting on the next call to fill out paperwork on a corpse. If a 5 year dies in the crossfire it’s just another sheet of paper to fill out. What stunningly low expectations you have of law enforcement. You do realize that that one south park episode was _satire_, right? The fact is that being a police officer is a risky job. You are expected to serve and protect, and there’s a certain degree of risk involved here that officers simply cannot avoid. If you’re the guy who has to get involved in when the mafia and yakuza are about to start shooting at each other, you will be in danger. It comes with the territory. And of course, complain all you want about the 34 cops shot, the fact is that this number is _incredibly_ low, relatively speaking. Way lower than in previous years. I wonder if this is attributable to the Ferguson effect? Because that would indicate entirely that the “Ferguson effect” comes down to the police not being willing to do their goddamn jobs, in which case it’s time to start looking into finding officers who aren’t chickenshit and who are willing to do what needs to be done to _do their jobs_\*. If everyone at the fire department suddenly was unwilling to go anywhere near a burning building for fear of their own skins, you wouldn’t say, “Well, that’s their business, no problems here”, would you? \*(Not me, obviously. I’m terrified of guns, bombs, knives, large blunt objects, small blunt objects, and physical activity in general. But if everyone was me, we wouldn’t _need_ a police force.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=11)