# Are the actions of BLM wise or foolish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278 "2015-11-22T15:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/241 "2015-12-06T20:26:32Z")
Here’s a link to love coverage of today’s protest in Chicago. I strongly suggest they behave and don’t attempt to trespass. > **[Protesters Flood State Street, Call for Justice](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/rev-jesse-jackson-leads-march-down-state-street-in-memory-of-laquan-mcdonald/88422/)** > > The Rev. Jesse Jackson led another protest and rally Sunday afternoon in response to the release of dashcam video showing the shooting of Laquan McDonald. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/242 "2015-12-06T20:32:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For a day? Okay, some businesses were “shut down” for a day (I thought you meant “put out of business forever”). Yes, very inconvenient for some, I’m sure. I think some inconvenience can be justified. > s. So, if I think your neighbor’s position on gun control is baloney, can I force you to take a day off without pay to make my political point and you are totally okay with that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/243 "2015-12-06T20:46:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So, if I think your neighbor’s position on gun control is baloney, can I force you to take a day off without pay to make my political point and you are totally okay with that? I can’t evaluate a situation without knowing the details. Some, but not all, inconveniences can be justified, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/244 "2015-12-06T20:47:27Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > … I strongly suggest they behave and don’t attempt to trespass. > > [Protesters Flood State Street, Call for Justice – NBC Chicago](http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Rev-Jesse-Jackson-Leads-March-Down-State-Street-in-Memory-of-Laquan-McDonald-360722231.html) Did you suggest that to them, you know, just here? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/245 "2015-12-06T20:49:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I can’t evaluate a situation without knowing the details. Some, but not all, inconveniences can be justified, in my opinion. Lame. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/246 "2015-12-07T06:58:51Z")
Ferguson sure appears to have a serious track record of targeting blacks, and there are grounds for serious, broadly recognized, _legitimate_ grievances. That said, Michael Brown was 99% not innocent. The forensic evidence, if one accepts that this as evidence (given the dept of justice investigation and what not) backs up the police officers view. If you want to be crass and consider it “marketing”, it was not the best move because it allows naysayers (or racist pig dogs) to hand wave away the institutional history of racism by the police force. Martin Luther King (shorthand for all the groups involved) chose Rosa Parks because she would stand up as a wronged, innocent black woman. There were other candidates to set off Montgomery, but MLK thought that Rosa was the one to bet big on as the chance of her success was far greater than some of the other candidates. I don’t think anyone would say that Michael Brown was a great candidate for being the poster child of racism in Ferguson. BLM appear to me that they want to do _something_, but are not thinking through what they want to accomplish nor effective ways to achieve what they want to accomplish. I hope this makes sense? To say it another way, BLM’s marketing sucks even if it’s a noble cause. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/247 "2015-12-07T13:35:39Z")
> [@Budget Player Cadet](#): > > Yes, Wilson acted in self-defense. He also shot the guy 12 freakin’ times, because, yanno, there’s apparently no such thing as “shoot to injure”; maybe try to respond with non-lethal force or something. Actually six freakin’ times. And there is such a thing as “shoot to injure”. It is a preposterously stupid thing, it is not practical, it is not in accordance with the police policy in any state or jurisdiction, but it does exist. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > To some extent, depending on whom you believe. If he initiated the encounter by screaming at Brown and his friend to get out of the road, then pulling his cruiser onto the sidewalk while nearby running the pair over, then he wasn’t doing his job. You are mistaken - stopping people from walking down the middle of the street is part of the police’ job. > [@orcenio](#): > > I find it very interesting that, in your own mind, you put yourself in a position where you both have the power **to be appealed to** by the protesters **and** the power **to freely ignore** protesters. I have rather shocking news for you. While you might be insulated enough to be the latter, you are _most definitely_ not important enough to be the former. I am not sure what you mean. If the protestors are not trying to influence me, then they wouldn’t (in my state) be blocking the highways, protesting to the governor of my state, and attempting to influence my state legislators. Or calling for federal investigations - I am a US citizen, and my elected representatives are supposed to represent me. But in general, everyone in a republic has the same choice of being appealed to, or ignoring, protests such as BLM. If they had a legitimate grievance, I would listen to and be affected by their protests. Since, in my opinion, they don’t, I ignore them to the extent I can, and expect the police to maintain public order and not allow them to block the public roadways. IIUC the protestors are trying to disrupt my life and thus prevent me from ignoring them. That won’t work, even when I can’t ignore them - their disruptions, since they are not in a good cause, cause me to feel actively antagonistic towards them, and thus to some small extent push me to vote for and support politicians and police who are equally unsympathetic. If the protestors act legally, good for them but I don’t think their cause is just and won’t give them any support. If they act illegally, I still don’t think their cause is just, so I have no patience with them and ask that they be arrested or otherwise prevented from interfering with my life. It goes back to what I said earlier - if the protestors have learned that they can get what they want by going on strike (in essence), then that won’t work in situations where football is considered unimportant, as it is pretty much everywhere outside sports fan circles and in business and in politics and so on. If the protestors have learned, or think they have learned, that they can get what they want by annoying me and others like me, that won’t work either. Because I don’'t respond to annoyance by giving in. I am not much annoyed by annoying people who have a good cause. I am annoyed by annoying people who don’t. BLM doesn’t have a good cause. Most of the things they are protesting are their own fault, and I can’t, and don’t intend, to fix their problems for them. Jamar Clark, convicted thug and abuser, breaks his girlfriend’s ankle and interferes with the paramedics who are trying to treat the injury he caused, The police are summoned, and he fights with them, and gets shot. Some black activists spread some lies about how he was handcuffed when he was shot. None of this is my problem, and has nothing to do with racism. Michael Brown robs a store, walks down the middle of the public road with the stolen goods in his hand, attacks a cop, tries to grab his gun, and gets shot attacking the cop, who he outweighed by 80 pounds. Some black activists spread some lies about how he was shot in the back. Again, not my problem, and has nothing to do with racism. Tamir Rice is waving a gun around in public. When the police yell at him to freeze, he grabs for the gun, which has been altered to look real. Rice gets shot. Also not my problem and not something that can be fixed by protests againts racism. Etc. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/248 "2015-12-07T14:37:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are mistaken - stopping people from walking down the middle of the street is part of the police’ job. And the way in which they do this, and the way they interact with the public they serve, has no bearing on anything? I disagree, and I doubt the Ferguson PD procedures instruct officers to scream obscenities at jaywalkers and nearly run them down with their cars. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/249 "2015-12-07T14:55:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > And the way in which they do this, and the way they interact with the public they serve, has no bearing on anything? I disagree, and I doubt the Ferguson PD procedures instruct officers to scream obscenities at jaywalkers and nearly run them down with their cars. Yes, of course it has a bearing. Not least because occasionally it leads to the arrest of strong-arm robbers. And no doubt you have convincing evidence that Wilson screamed obscenities at Brown instead of [vice versa](http://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-darren-wilsons-story-shooting-michael-brown/story?id=27156510) as Wilson claims. But this goes to something I touched on earlier - the terrible injustice being protested is that when the police attempted to arrest this nasty criminal, they didn’t do it nicely enough. I do not suddenly melt with sympathy because the violent criminal who the cop cut off with his cruiser upon learning he was a robbery suspect was a black violent criminal. For heaven’s sake - I am supposed to be upset because the cops stopped someone from walking down the middle of the road with stolen goods in his hand? Why on earth would I be? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/250 "2015-12-07T15:14:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, of course it has a bearing. Not least because occasionally it leads to the arrest of strong-arm robbers. And no doubt you have convincing evidence that Wilson screamed obscenities at Brown instead of [vice versa](http://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-darren-wilsons-story-shooting-michael-brown/story?id=27156510) as Wilson claims. > > But this goes to something I touched on earlier - the terrible injustice being protested is that when the police attempted to arrest this nasty criminal, they didn’t do it nicely enough. I do not suddenly melt with sympathy because the violent criminal who the cop cut off with his cruiser upon learning he was a robbery suspect was a black violent criminal. > > For heaven’s sake - I am supposed to be upset because the cops stopped someone from walking down the middle of the road with stolen goods in his hand? Why on earth would I be? > > Regards, > Shodan You’re supposed to be upset that the Ferguson PD’s focus was on raising revenue, for which it exploited its black citizenry, rather than public safety. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/251 "2015-12-07T15:23:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, of course it has a bearing. Not least because occasionally it leads to the arrest of strong-arm robbers. More often, treating the local residents badly makes them dislike and distrust the police, which includes refusing to cooperate with them. > [@Shodan](#): > > And no doubt you have convincing evidence that Wilson screamed obscenities at Brown instead of [vice versa](http://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-darren-wilsons-story-shooting-michael-brown/story?id=27156510) as Wilson claims. I already stated “depending on whom you believe” and used the conjunction “if”. > [@Shodan](#): > > But this goes to something I touched on earlier - the terrible injustice being protested is that when the police attempted to arrest this nasty criminal, they didn’t do it nicely enough. I do not suddenly melt with sympathy because the violent criminal who the cop cut off with his cruiser upon learning he was a robbery suspect was a black violent criminal. > > For heaven’s sake - I am supposed to be upset because the cops stopped someone from walking down the middle of the road with stolen goods in his hand? Why on earth would I be? > > Regards, > Shodan With same “if” and “depending on whom you believe” qualifiers as above: At the time the alleged screaming occurring, Brown and his friend were jaywalkers, not robbery suspects. At the time Wilson allegedly drove onto the sidewalk to block Brown, nearly striking him with the vehicle, Brown was a robbery suspect, and nothing more. Both of these actions are objectionable: police shouldn’t curse at jaywalkers, and they shouldn’t risk striking suspects with their cars. Both indicate a lack of care for the residents the police are charged with serving. As **iiandyiiii** , the real injustice is the shakedown racket the Ferguson PD was operating, and their systematic violations of the Constitution. But just because Wilson was legally permitted to shoot Brown, doesn’t mean that he was doing a stellar job as a policeman before that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/252 "2015-12-07T16:50:36Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > More often, treating the local residents badly makes them dislike and distrust the police, which includes refusing to cooperate with them. If a local resident is walking down the middle of the street instead of the sidewalk, then he needs to be treated badly. If by “treated badly” you mean “told to get back on the sidewalk where he belongs”. > [@](#): > > I already stated “depending on whom you believe” and used the conjunction “if”. Well, we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the narrative claiming that Brown was shot in the back was false. Based on that. I tend to disbelieve the other part of the narrative where Wilson screamed at Brown and not vice versa. > [@](#): > > At the time Wilson allegedly drove onto the sidewalk to block Brown, nearly striking him with the vehicle, Brown was a robbery suspect, and nothing more. My problem with the above is the phrase “nothing more”. Blocking a robbery suspect with your car is not treating people badly. It is treating a robbery suspect appropriately. > [@](#): > > Both of these actions are objectionable: police shouldn’t curse at jaywalkers, and they shouldn’t risk striking suspects with their cars. As above, no credible reason exists to believe that the police were cursing at a jaywalker, and I for one have no objection to cutting off a robbery suspect with your car. I _want_ the police to stop people from walking in the middle of the street. I _want_ the police to arrest robbers. That’s what the police are there to do. > [@](#): > > As **iiandyiiii** , the real injustice is the shakedown racket the Ferguson PD was operating, and their systematic violations of the Constitution. I don’t believe it is a violation of the Constitution to fine [people who speed and drive without insurance and don’t pay their fines and ignore their court dates](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/). This kind of thing is like the lottery - it is a voluntary tax on stupidity. If you don’t want to pay the tax, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to buy lottery tickets, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to pay traffic fines, don’t drive without insurance or on a suspended license or with expired plates or speed or ignore stop signs. And if you can’t afford insurance or license fees, you don’t just ignore your court dates for years at a time and then cry racism when the police stop you for yet another violation and discover you have five different warrants out because you did. YMMV. But it shouldn’t. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/253 "2015-12-07T17:13:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If a local resident is walking down the middle of the street instead of the sidewalk, then he needs to be treated badly. If by “treated badly” you mean “told to get back on the sidewalk where he belongs”. Yeah, see, that’s sort of the thing - [that’s _not_ what is typically meant by “treated badly”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/95-percent-of-people-arrested-for-jaywalking-in-ferguson-were-black/). If it were just that, I don’t think anyone would have a problem. But that’s just not what’s going on here. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe it is a violation of the Constitution to fine [people who speed and drive without insurance and don’t pay their fines and ignore their court dates](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/). > > This kind of thing is like the lottery - it is a voluntary tax on stupidity. If you don’t want to pay the tax, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to buy lottery tickets, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to pay traffic fines, don’t drive without insurance or on a suspended license or with expired plates or speed or ignore stop signs. And if you can’t afford insurance or license fees, you don’t just ignore your court dates for years at a time and then cry racism when the police stop you for yet another violation and discover you have five different warrants out because you did. See, it’s funny. You quote that article, but by all appearances you _didn’t read it_. There’s not even an attempt apparent here to understand _why_ these people might miss their court dates, or drive without insurance, or not pay fines - personally, I think it shouldn’t really take much explaining to understand that the main reason one does not pay a fine is because one _does not have the money_. And it’s not like that isn’t in the article. There’s nothing voluntary about driving with expired insurance when you don’t have the money to pay for insurance and you have to drive to work. And by the way? The reason people think it’s racist is because it disproportionately affects black people. Which you would _also_ know if you had read the article you linked to. Or almost any other part of the thread or the general conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/254 "2015-12-07T17:27:48Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I think it shouldn’t really take much explaining to understand that the main reason one does not pay a fine is because one _does not have the money_. And it’s not like that isn’t in the article. There’s nothing voluntary about driving with expired insurance when you don’t have the money to pay for insurance and you have to drive to work. That’s where you are mistaken. Driving without insurance is completely voluntary. If you don’t have a car, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for gas, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for your license tabs, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for insurance, you can’t drive. And if you can’t afford to pay the fines when you violate the above, you can’t drive. ‘If you can’t afford it, you can’t drive’ is not racism - it works that way for everyone. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/255 "2015-12-07T17:47:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s where you are mistaken. Driving without insurance is completely voluntary. > > If you don’t have a car, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for gas, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for your license tabs, you can’t drive. If you can’t pay for insurance, you can’t drive. And if you can’t afford to pay the fines when you violate the above, you can’t drive. > > ‘If you can’t afford it, you can’t drive’ is not racism - it works that way for everyone. > > Regards, > Shodan If black people are overwhelmingly targeted for these fines despite not being any more likely to be in violation (and by the stats for pulling cars over in Ferguson, black drivers were _less likely_ to have contraband or violations than white drivers), then isn’t there at least a tiny possibility that racism might be involved? Isn’t it a problem if a police department’s focus is raising revenue rather than public safety? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/256 "2015-12-07T17:50:55Z")
When black people do stuff that is illegal and they complain that “white people would be more likely to get away with it”… I don’t think “racism, thats horrible!”…I think “some more white people should be getting some shit thrown their way too”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/257 "2015-12-07T17:59:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If black people are overwhelmingly targeted for these fines despite not being any more likely to be in violation (and by the stats for pulling cars over in Ferguson, black drivers were _less likely_ to have contraband or violations than white drivers), then isn’t there at least a tiny possibility that racism might be involved? Isn’t it a problem if a police department’s focus is raising revenue rather than public safety? Do you mean less likely _given the ones that were searched_? Because it is possible that both may be true, that a given demographic is more likely to have contraband and violations, while at the same time is searched so overwhelmingly more often that the majority of cases are completely unfounded and would never even be contemplated in the other demographic. ETA: even if the rates were the same, the likelihood of searches would seem to make it look like the more-often-searched demographic had a smaller violation incidence. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/258 "2015-12-07T18:08:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If a local resident is walking down the middle of the street instead of the sidewalk, then he needs to be treated badly. If by “treated badly” you mean “told to get back on the sidewalk where he belongs”. Screaming “get the fuck on the sidewalk” from a passing car is treating someone badly. It’s antagonistic and totally uncalled for. > [@Shodan](#): > > Well, we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the narrative claiming that Brown was shot in the back was false. Based on that. I tend to disbelieve the other part of the narrative where Wilson screamed at Brown and not vice versa. That’s your right. On the other hand, we have evidence of poor treatment of the local black community by the Ferguson PD, including racist jokes. So it’s not improbable that Wilson screamed at Brown and Johnson, but as I said, it’s not provable. > [@Shodan](#): > > My problem with the above is the phrase “nothing more”. Blocking a robbery suspect with your car is not treating people badly. It is treating a robbery suspect appropriately. It’s too dangerous, relative to the situation. If Brown had been run over, would you defend the decision to drive a car at him up onto a sidewalk? > [@Shodan](#): > > I _want_ the police to stop people from walking in the middle of the street. I _want_ the police to arrest robbers. That’s what the police are there to do. Unless you think they should do these things by any means necessary, then it’s still possible to do the right thing the wrong way. > [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t believe it is a violation of the Constitution to fine [people who speed and drive without insurance and don’t pay their fines and ignore their court dates](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/). > > This kind of thing is like the lottery - it is a voluntary tax on stupidity. If you don’t want to pay the tax, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to buy lottery tickets, you don’t have to. If you don’t want to pay traffic fines, don’t drive without insurance or on a suspended license or with expired plates or speed or ignore stop signs. And if you can’t afford insurance or license fees, you don’t just ignore your court dates for years at a time and then cry racism when the police stop you for yet another violation and discover you have five different warrants out because you did. > > YMMV. But it shouldn’t. > > Regards, > Shodan Did you read the DoJ report? It detailed numerous Fourth and First amendment violations by the Ferguson PD. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/259 "2015-12-07T18:42:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Screaming “get the fuck on the sidewalk” from a passing car is treating someone badly. It’s antagonistic and totally uncalled for. There is also no evidence that it happened. > [@](#): > > It’s too dangerous, relative to the situation. If Brown had been run over, would you defend the decision to drive a car at him up onto a sidewalk? What evidence do you have that Wilson drove onto the sidewalk? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/260 "2015-12-07T18:46:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s where you are mistaken. Driving without insurance is completely voluntary. By your logic, so is paying the rent. You really ought to understand that in some cases, the alternative is simply not worth contemplating. Okay, I can’t drive without insurance… Except I totally can, I’ll just get in trouble if I get caught. What I _can’t_ do is miss work, because they pay by the hour and I cannot afford to miss any shifts or they will fire me. Could you spend maybe thirty seconds before your next response here, and just _try_ to put yourselves in the shoes of a poor person before offering yet another callous, privileged response? Please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=14)