# Are the actions of BLM wise or foolish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278 "2015-11-22T15:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/321 "2015-12-10T05:12:03Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m almost positive that Bounkham didn’t volunteer to have a grenade thrown into his crib as part of an organized protest movement. That’s my point - with something like segregated buses, you can select an ideal candidate to demonstrate the injustice to a wider audience. With police shootings, you can’t. And my point is that you don’t _need_ to invent a rallying point by deliberately putting someone in a position where they will be treated unjustly, because one has already been handed to you on a silver platter. That what was done to Bounkham Phonesavanh Jr. is so terrible that nobody in their right mind would go through it willingly does not make it an inferior example of what is wrong with the police. That’s just arse-backwards. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/322 "2015-12-10T12:48:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [We used our legislators](http://www.informationliberation.com/test.php?id=11388) to ban traffic cameras. > > We think it’s a better way to solve the same problem. Personally the rioting and burning of businesses seems foolish and unwise to me. BLM agrees that rioting and burning businesses is foolish and unwise, and opposes it. And BLM is in favor of legislatures acting to change unfair and biased policies of police departments. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/323 "2015-12-10T23:47:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > BLM agrees that rioting and burning businesses is foolish and unwise, and opposes it. I’m not sure what planet you live on but BLM was front and center in Ferguson as it burned down. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And BLM is in favor of legislatures acting to change unfair and biased policies of police departments. BLM shut down a section of Chicago causing financial damage. This is not working through legislation. It’s foolish behavior. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/324 "2015-12-10T23:56:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not sure what planet you live on but BLM was front and center in Ferguson as it burned down. BLM is on record multiple times opposing rioting and violence of any kind. > [@](#): > > BLM shut down a section of Chicago causing financial damage. This is not working through legislation. It’s foolish behavior. Working through legislation is not the only tactic – like the Civil Rights protests from the past, BLM believes that non-violent civil disobedience is sometimes appropriate and can be effective in effecting positive change. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/325 "2015-12-11T03:50:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > BLM is on record multiple times opposing rioting and violence of any kind. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/326 "2015-12-11T12:32:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. Whatever works for you – dismissing a movement because of occasional missteps and violence that they explicitly condemn probably makes it easier to pretend that the vast majority of black people are wrong about how they are treated _for pretty much the only time in American history_. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/327 "2015-12-11T19:47:26Z")
But, BLM sprung up because of the actions of a criminal, Michael Brown. It’s not surprising that such a group would have no hesitation in using illegal tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/328 "2015-12-11T19:51:32Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > But, BLM sprung up because of the actions of a criminal, Michael Brown. It’s not surprising that such a group would have no hesitation in using illegal tactics. Actually, no, BLM sprung up in [July 2013, after the acquittal of George Zimmerman.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/03/04/alicia-garza-black-lives-matter/24341593/) The Ferguson protests were grassroots action by locals, though BLM activists travelled there to join them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/329 "2015-12-11T19:52:41Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > But, BLM sprung up because of the actions of a criminal, Michael Brown. It’s not surprising that such a group would have no hesitation in using illegal tactics. BLM regularly and consistently denounces violence and rioting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/330 "2015-12-11T22:44:29Z")
Not applying this to anyone in this thread, but I’ve seen a lot of objections to the movement that boil down to “those people are savage thugs” or “they’re making a big deal out of nothing.” > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Actually, no, BLM sprung up in [July 2013, after the acquittal of George Zimmerman.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/03/04/alicia-garza-black-lives-matter/24341593/) The Ferguson protests were grassroots action by locals, though BLM activists travelled there to join them. I’m more concerned about the "criminals deserve whatever happens to them " implication, as common as it is. > [@Magiver](#): > > HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. Then I’m sure you can dig up cites of the movement as a whole encouraging or participating in illegal activities so they can be discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/331 "2015-12-12T00:03:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whatever works for you – dismissing a movement because of occasional missteps and violence that they explicitly condemn probably makes it easier to pretend that the vast majority of black people are wrong about how they are treated _for pretty much the only time in American history_. sigh… The thread is about their tactics. And a number of people have pointed out the ones that make them look foolish. The most recent one in Chicago with the Reverend Jackass was not a misstep. Your response is to ignore them. You also ignore the rise in deaths attributed to Police officers who are scaling back attempts at circumventing crime. So it’s kinda hard to look at them and say they’re doing a good job without being a member of the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/332 "2015-12-12T00:07:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Then I’m sure you can dig up cites of the movement as a whole encouraging or participating in illegal activities so they can be discussed. You mean besides burning down Ferguson and shutting down streets in Chicago? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/333 "2015-12-12T01:16:04Z")
Yes, I’d definitely like cites that the organization Black Lives Matter condoned or participated in arson. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/334 "2015-12-12T02:40:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean besides burning down Ferguson and shutting down streets in Chicago? So, your position is that every single protester at Ferguson was a member of the Black Lives Matter movement? I suppose it would be pure foolishness to ask if you had any, y’know, evidence for your unlikely claim. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/335 "2015-12-12T02:58:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > sigh… The thread is about their tactics. And a number of people have pointed out the ones that make them look foolish. The most recent one in Chicago with the Reverend Jackass was not a misstep. > > Your response is to ignore them. You also ignore the rise in deaths attributed to Police officers who are scaling back attempts at circumventing crime. I’ve seen no evidence that any short-term changes in crime (it’s only been a few months) are attributable in any way to BLM. > [@](#): > > So it’s kinda hard to look at them and say they’re doing a good job without being a member of the KKK. I think you missed a “not” or something here (not sure what your point is). In any case, I’ve seen a lot of good (and not much, if any, bad) come out of BLM. I don’t think public support for body cameras would be nearly as high without BLM. They’ve also had tactical victories in various cities with certain high-profile resignations and firings. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/336 "2015-12-12T09:03:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ve tried “all lives matter” – it doesn’t work (or at least the justice system in America hasn’t stuck to it). Black people, and black lives, are treated disparately by the justice system, so there needs to be a special focus and emphasis on black lives. Where’s the evidence for this? Is there any solid evidence, beyond just anecdotal, that the justice system treats black people killed by police officers differently from white people killed by police officers? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/337 "2015-12-12T13:49:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, your position is that every single protester at Ferguson was a member of the Black Lives Matter movement? It’s my position that BLM set the stage for the events that followed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/338 "2015-12-12T14:01:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve seen no evidence that any short-term changes in crime (it’s only been a few months) are attributable in any way to BLM. So you think the police chief that was fired over it should sue the city? You think the FBI Chief who researched it is a liar? I see no evidence that you give a shit beyond the need to argue a point. Great. Let the bodies stack up. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think you missed a “not” or something here (not sure what your point is). In any case, I’ve seen a lot of good (and not much, if any, bad) come out of BLM. I don’t think public support for body cameras would be nearly as high without BLM. They’ve also had tactical victories in various cities with certain high-profile resignations and firings. They’ve won nothing and nothing will change as long as education is ignored and parental guidance abandoned. Because this is what needs to be fixed in order to reduce the body count. Almost every person killed by cops would be alive today if they had functional parents and lived in an environment that valued education. Those kids “protesting” in a college library were the poster children of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/339 "2015-12-12T14:26:59Z")
Two Chicagoans talk about the Laquan McDonald shooting and Chi-town politics for about 45min. [Bloggingheads.tv: THE GLENN SHOW](http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/37952) with Glenn Loury [(Brown University)](http://www.econ.brown.edu/fac/Glenn_Loury/louryhomepage/) and David Yellen [(Loyola University Chicago School of Law)](http://www.luc.edu/law/faculty/yellen.shtml) Very topical, informative guest, and (as always) interesting points of views. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/340 "2015-12-12T14:27:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s my position that BLM set the stage for the events that followed. It’s just as reasonable (and probably far more so) to blame this on bad cops, who set the stage for widespread anger against law enforcement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=18)