# Are the actions of BLM wise or foolish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278 "2015-11-22T15:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/401 "2016-03-22T21:40:19Z")
> [@Kiante\_83](#): > > What does black on black violence have to do with police brutality? Hell you don’t even care that %84 of white murders are white on white violence. This again has nothing to do with the fact that they’re asking for equal treatment from the Police who are paid by American citizens because they take an oath to uphold the law in comparison to just regular citizens who don’t make any type of promise about how they’ll act. > > If you don’t care about unnecessary violence, which I doubt you do since you’re not on the sidelines fighting for bringing down white on white violence, why don’t you just stay out of debates when it comes to people who do care. Especially when you’re not even debating the actual issue. Kiante- You don’t get to tell people where and how they can participate. Tom and I get to do that. Don’t do it again. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/402 "2016-03-22T22:22:50Z")
I missed the thread earlier and read it now. I’ll post a TL;DR summary. Special thanks to **Budget Player Cadet** who explained the stupidity of “All Lives Matter”. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Or, to put it another way: when I say “black lives matter!” I am specifically addressing an inequality in the system: the fact that black lives, by and large, _don’t_ seem to matter, at least not in the way white lives do. If your response is “all lives matter!” you have at best missed the point and at worst are trying to deflect from it. Yes, of course all lives matter, but right now we’re trying to pay special attention to black lives because that’s the point where “all lives matter” seems to be breaking down. It’s like wondering why there’s no such thing as a straight pride parade - you _completely miss the point of the exercise_, and at this point in the conversation it’s entirely reasonable to assume that you’ve either just stumbled into the room for the first time, or you’re doing it on purpose. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Or, to put it another another way: when I say “#BlackLivesMatter”, I am referring to a specific set of circumstances. I’m talking specifically about the problems African-Americans have where they are marginalized, their lives are seen as worth less than that of Caucasians, and they face systemic racism on a constant basis. When you respond with “#AllLivesMatter”, what, exactly are you trying to say in response? Yes, I _know_ all lives matter, but what does that have to do with the conversation we’re having? It’d be like responding with “#GettingVaccinatedMatters” for all the relevance it has to the discussion. We all know it matters, but it has fuck-all to do with what we’re talking about. > > This is the context behind “all lives matter” that you _need_ to understand, **ITR** and everyone else who just doesn’t get it. It’s a response to a conversation that has nothing to do with what the conversation is talking about… _Unless_ you assume that it’s meant as that dismissive, “_Everyone_ matters, stop getting all pissy about just black/muslim/trans people”. And, surprise surprise, that’s _exactly_ the context it almost always gets used in. The thread focused on despicable behavior by authorities of Chicago and Illinois … > [@orcenio](#): > > Update: State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez, the person who’s responsible for helping cover up Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke’s shooting of Laquan McDonald for 13 months -then hurryingly charging Van Dyke with 1st degree murder hours before video of the shooting was forced public by a judge, lost her bid for re-election Tuesday to Kim Foxx. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > First off, let’s be clear on something here. The “knife-wielding teen” was walking away from the police when he was shot. Sixteen times. > > Despite this dashcam footage being known about, it took a _year_ for this evidence to go public, and for the officer to be charged. A YEAR! The city of Chicago held this under wraps for an entire year, delaying justice for what is a blatantly obvious case of murder. That’s outrageous, and as good a reason as any to protest. > > You look at a scenario like this, where it took a full year for a murder caught on video to see justice, where countless similar cases around the country have _not_ seen any measure of justice, and then you talk about the protesters being “crybabies”, “jerks”, “selfish”… You sure you don’t want to call Laquan a “thug” while you’re at it? It’d fill out my bingo sheet. … yet a few Dopers showed up to blame the victims, for example: > [@Magiver](#): > > … Reverend Jackson … the poster child of racial nonsense. It was good to see these confused Dopers put in their place: > [@Kimstu](#): > > And here’s **Grumman** … Yup, folks, being a lone black teen with a pocketknife who breaks into cars and when confronted by police, damages a police car and then tries to get away is grounds for immediate execution. Being a white insurrectionist and fraudster who incites an armed mob standoff with federal officers who are legally confiscating property that you forfeited by thieving the use of public lands while evading payment of your legally assessed fees makes you “look like the good guy”. > > In **Grumman** ’s book, at least. :rolleyes: > [@Miller](#): > > Isn’t the phrase “following someone down a rabbit hole” a direct reference to _Alice in Wonderland_? If so, **Magiver** didn’t compare his own thought process to a tangled, lightless warren, he compared it to a surrealist, cacophonous hellscape governed by incomprehensible rules, and filled with equal parts deliberate gibberish and cultural referents that have antiquated entirely out of the popular consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/403 "2016-03-23T17:03:25Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I missed the thread earlier and read it now. I’ll post a TL;DR summary. > > Special thanks to **Budget Player Cadet** who explained the stupidity of “All Lives Matter”. Yes, if you can’t understand the problem after it’s been elegantly outlined via dick-based metaphor, this is one matter that’s simply beyond your range of comprehension. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “All lives matters” is a complete dismissal of the point. > > Imagine that you go out to dinner with your family, and everyone gets what they order except you - you get a plate full of dicks. You say, “Hey, I should get what I ordered!” And your wife responds with “_Everyone_ should get what they ordered,” while chowing down on the food she ordered and doing absolutely nothing about your plate of dicks. The effective meaning of that sentence is to _completely ignore your complaints_. Yes, obviously everyone should get what they ordered, but _most people already do_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/404 "2016-03-23T20:26:53Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Yes, if you can’t understand the problem after it’s been elegantly outlined via dick-based metaphor, this is one matter that’s simply beyond your range of comprehension. Hooray for dick-based metaphors! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/405 "2016-03-23T21:59:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not sure what planet you live on but BLM was front and center in Ferguson as it burned down. > > BLM shut down a section of Chicago causing financial damage. This is not working through legislation. It’s foolish behavior. You don’t seem to understand that just because there’s a group that’s called Black Lives Matter, everybody who’s black is not in this group. The fact that you can’t separate the black people that are looting and destroying property from the protesters who are in the Black Lives Matter movement, shows us your poor comprehension skills when it comes to group think. ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/406 "2016-03-23T22:25:44Z")
to many in the blm movement, the modus operandi seems to be any attention is good attention. I’m firmly in the camp that attention gained by your movement acting jerks harms the cause and decreases the sympathy of people for your cause ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/407 "2016-03-24T18:09:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes. It seems like overkill. > His mother seems to have fucked him up pretty badly - > > [Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laquan_McDonald). Perhaps she should face some consequences, not that it will do any good. > > Regards, > Shodan Based on your cite I’m thinking you meant to say “His mother seems to be fucked up pretty badly”. Apparently to the fact that he has been successful enough to become a Prosecutor, it didn’t appear to fuck him up too badly. ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/408 "2016-03-24T18:16:08Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Brown’s body in the street](https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+brown+robbery&biw=1544&bih=817&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj18b2VidXLAhUDdD4KHUABCoYQ_AUICCgD&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=michael+brown+body&imgrc=1eM7sGacqkgjhM%3A) > > [Brown in the store](https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+brown+robbery&biw=1544&bih=817&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj18b2VidXLAhUDdD4KHUABCoYQ_AUICCgD&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=michael+brown+body&imgrc=mv8UwvAlEZVujM%3A) > > Those are the same shoes…and the same shirt, and the same shorts. > > If you respond in good faith, I’ll address your other points. Response: [Betboo Bahis Sitesi - Giriş ve Kayıt Bilgileri](http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/) In good faith ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/409 "2016-03-24T18:19:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How did he get the stolen cigars if he didn’t rob the store?How did he get shot in the hand, and how did Brown’s DNA get on Wilson’s gun and the SUV, if they never struggled for the gun near the SUV? > > Regards, > Shodan Again, you’re believing everything the lying officers are saying when there’s actually no proof. > **[Michael Brown's Family Asks: What Else Do They Need to 'Arrest the Killer'?](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/michael-browns-family-asks-what-else-do-they-need-arrest-n183066)** > > A private autopsy found that Brown had been shot at least six times. ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/410 "2016-03-24T18:41:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Somebody seems to have notified the police dispatcher of a theft in progress at the convenience store. They gave a description of the robber as a black male, acccompanied by another black male, wearing a white T-shirt, a red St. Louis Cardinals hat, yellow socks, and khaki shorts. By the merest coincidence, Brown just happened to be wearing a white T-shirt, a red baseball cap, and khaki shorts. He was in the company of another black male, Dorian Johnson, who, again by sheer coincidence, recounted how Brown had indeed stolen the cigars. (Same cite.) That certainly seems like strong-arm robbery to me. > > Regards, > Shodan Apologies on this point. My cite apparently thought Wilson just stood outside his vehicle and fired his weapon. He wasn’t aware that he gave chase. ---
**Author:** ![Kiante\_83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@Kiante\_83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiante_83)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/411 "2016-03-24T18:42:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And yet, here you are. > You are kind of jumping around here. You have made a number of assertions about the Michael Brown shooting, not many of which are true. Would you care to respond to those, or shall we simply assume you have been refuted and then we can discuss Tamir Rice? > > Regards, > Shodan I have since responded. You may continue. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/412 "2016-03-24T19:24:46Z")
> [@Kiante\_83](#): > > Response: [Betboo Bahis Sitesi - Giriş ve Kayıt Bilgileri](http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/) > > In good faith That article says nothing about Brown’s shoes. Are you retracting this claim? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/413 "2016-03-31T13:12:49Z")
> [@Kiante\_83](#): > > Apologies on this point. My cite apparently thought Wilson just stood outside his vehicle and fired his weapon. He wasn’t aware that he gave chase. OK then, just to be clear, are there other of your allegations that you are standing by, or do you concede that the incident went down pretty much as follows - [ul] [li]Michael Brown was videotaped robbing a convenience store, where he stole cigars - _Backed up by the videotape, the testimony of the convenience store workers, and finding the cigars in Brown’s possession_[/li][li]Officer Wilson spotted Brown walking down the middle of the street, and yelled at him to get back on the sidewalk - _Backed up by the testimony of WIlson and Dorian Johnson_[/li][li]Wilson then heard the report of the convenience store robbery, and recognized that Brown matched the description - _Backed up by the transcript of the police report, what Brown was wearing when he was shot, and the testimony of Wilson and Johnson_[/li][li]Wilson then drove up to Brown - _Also backed up by the testimony of Wilson and Johnson_[/li][li]A struggle ensued, during which Brown was shot in the hand attempting to grab Wilson’s gun, and Brown punched Wilson in the face - _Backed up by DNA evidence, forensic evidence, the testimony of Johnson and Wilson, evidence of injury to Wilson’s face_[/li][li]Brown then started to run, then turned and charged back towards Wilson - _Backed up by the testimony of Johson, and several other witnesses found to be credible under examination ([cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown))_[/li][li]Brown outweighed Wilson by some 80 pounds - _Established by autopsy_[/li][li]Wilson then fired twelve shots in two bursts, hitting Brown six times, the last shot being likely to be the fatal shot - \*Established by autopsy, audio recording \*[/li][li]Brown was moving towards Wilson, and none of the shots hit Brown from behind - _Established by autopsy, blood spatter evidence, but contradicted by the testimony of Dorian Johnson_[/li][/ul]Is that correct, or do you dispute any of the points? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278/414 "2016-03-31T14:16:17Z")
Michael Brown is such a horrible icon for such a worthwhile movement. Ferguson is pretty fucked up and there are probably dozens of good examples of cops misbehaving in Ferguson. Its not like Michael Brown was a pillar of the community that everyone rallied around, its that a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism. And Brown was the unworthy catalyst of a worthy cause. It brought dozens of instances of cops behaving badly to light and now we have button cams and dash cams on many more cops and cop cars than we used to have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-actions-of-blm-wise-or-foolish/738278.md?page=20)