# Are the after effects of colonialism to blame for most African countries current problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456 "2010-03-14T17:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/101 "2010-03-18T04:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Then again, CP and Chen019 aren’t really interested in Africa. Belowjob, How are we not attempting to answer the question posed by the OP? If you feel that biological factors and divergent evolutionary paths have no importance then just say so. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/102 "2010-03-18T05:17:32Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Belowjob, > > How are we not attempting to answer the question posed by the OP? If you feel that biological factors and divergent evolutionary paths have no importance then just say so. You haven’t demonstrated any relevant biological factors. You haven’t demonstrated divergent evolutionary paths. You want to talk about Africa without actually knowing anything about Africa. A couple of questions for you: Is polygny a widespread practice in sub Saharan Africa? What effect would the practice of polygny be likely to have on human evolution in a given population over a long period of time? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/103 "2010-03-18T05:29:20Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > So you don’t buy the idea that Afro Asiatic language speakers had a common origin in the horn of Africa? No. I buy the origin for the languages, but the genetics show that the Levantine Semites are closer to the Anatolian/Iranian peoples than they are to the Horn peoples > [@](#): > > Not to go too far off topic, but what do you make of the the latest genetic research shows that the Oromos of Ethiopia and the Khoisan peoples of South Africa share some the oldest clades. The theory being that the Bantu expansion out of West Africa separated what was originally a continuous population. I find it fascinating, and plausible. Although migration into those areas is also possible, rather than both groups being originally located there. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/104 "2010-03-18T05:47:04Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > You haven’t demonstrated any relevant biological factors. You haven’t demonstrated divergent evolutionary paths. Have you read any of my references above? There are several that demonstrate recent changes in different groups. This is the Williamson paper, but you could also consider the ones by Voight or Bruce Lahn. The implications of these changes aren’t fully understood. > [@](#): > > Several genes with functional roles in the development and function of the nervous system show very strong evidence (CLR p \< 10−5) for a recent selective sweep. For example, SV2B, a gene encoding a synaptic vesicle protein with highest expression during brain development [36], exhibits strong evidence for a selective sweep in the African-American sample. Likewise, the protein encoded by DAB1 plays a developmental role in the layering of neurons in the cerebral cortex and cerebellum [37], and exhibits strong evidence for a selective sweep in the Asian sample. Other nervous system genes with strong evidence for a selective sweep include two candidate genes for Alzheimer disease (APPBP2 and APBA2) that bind the amyloid-beta precursor protein, two genes (SKP1A and PCDH15) with a role in sensory development, and several others with various roles in nervous system development and function (PHACTR1, ALG10, PREP, GPM6A, and DGKI)… > > Here we have presented a comprehensive scan for selective sweeps across the human genome. Several general patterns emerge from the analysis. We find much more evidence for selective sweeps in Chinese and European-American populations than in the African-American population. This result is consistent with the hypothesis that, as anatomically modern humans migrated out of sub-Saharan Africa, the novel environments they encountered imposed new selective pressures, which in turn led to an increased rate of population-specific selective sweeps [54–56]. > **[PLOS Genetics](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/)** > [@](#): > > Is polygny a widespread practice in sub Saharan Africa? > > What effect would the practice of polygny be likely to have on human evolution in a given population over a long period of time? Apparently so and women do the majority of the agricultural work. I am trying unsuccessfully to find the article I saw yesterday about this in the context of farming in Africa. In terms of the effect on human evolution, anthropologist Peter Frost has a bit of a discussion here. > **[Polygyny and human evolution](http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/02/polygyny-and-human-evolution.html)** > > Many evolutionary biologists believe that men used to be largely polygamous. Ernst Mayr (1970, p. 386) writes: Among Alaskan Eskimos, among ... ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/105 "2010-03-18T10:03:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _Semitic_ is an ethnicity. Perhaps to some Jews, but you don’t hear Lebanese calling themselves Semites as an ethnicity, typically. Semetic is first and foremost a language group. > [@](#): > > They look brown enough to me. Not as dark-brown as Egyptians, more on the same level as Persians or Turks. Then you don’t know many actual Turks or Persians. > [@](#): > > Yes, probably indistinguishable from a Greek or Sicilian or a Spaniard fisherman. I’d call those brown people too. They may deny the Turkish/Moorish/Semitic part of their ancestry, but I don’t think you have to look to hard to see it. Or rather, their general shared Mediterranean ancestry. And as Spaniards and Greeks and Italians are typically called “white” … but then this properly highlights the idiocies of such distinctions, as rather clearly Lebanese are being peeled off from Greeks for cultural reasons. > [@](#): > > It’s more to emphasise that whatever they were, the Phonecians (and Egyptians) did not fall under the banner of “European”. > > Yeah, that’s a better way of putting it - they were non-European. Fine, silly distinction to make, although perhaps not useless given the two racialists in the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/106 "2010-03-18T12:26:52Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Have you read any of my references above? There are several that demonstrate recent changes in different groups. This is the Williamson paper, but you could also consider the ones by Voight or Bruce Lahn. The implications of these changes aren’t fully understood. > > [PLOS Genetics](http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0030090) > > Apparently so and women do the majority of the agricultural work. I am trying unsuccessfully to find the article I saw yesterday about this in the context of farming in Africa. In terms of the effect on human evolution, anthropologist Peter Frost has a bit of a discussion here. > > [Evo and Proud: Polygyny and human evolution](http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/02/polygyny-and-human-evolution.html) It’s clear that you don’t know enough about Africa to answer the questions I’ve posed. Frost knows very little about Africa. His specialty is First Nations Canadians. His writings on Africa are pure speculation. It goes without saying, of course, that his knowledge of genetics wouldn’t pass muster with geneticists. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/107 "2010-03-18T14:18:03Z")
This is getting old-literally…most sub-saharan african states are now 2+ generations removed from colonial pasts. The sad thing is, no matter how rich these places are in resources (like the Congo, Angola, etc.), almost none of the wealthn ever seems to stay in these places. Take Nigeria-you look at the place, and wonder what happened to the $38 billion that came in from their oil exports. I suspect most of it resides in bank accounst, in Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/108 "2010-03-18T14:29:15Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > This is getting old-literally..most sub-saharan african states are now 2+ generations removed from colonial pasts. Two generations plus? The generation that saw independence is the generation at leadership age, although they are now slowly being replaced by the first generation post-independence. That’s being marked, no surprise, by changes in attitudes, less obsession with the (very real) sins of colonialism and more focus, like in Ghana and other good performers, in getting own-house in order. Pretty much what one could expect, I would say, if one takes a generational analysis as one’s point of departure. > [@](#): > > The sad thing is, no matter how rich these places are in resources (like the Congo, Angola, etc.), almost none of the wealthn ever seems to stay in these places. Not really surprising. Weak states, weak governance traditions, and wealth being generated by a very small number of economic operators. That’s been a recipe for bad governance everywhere, not just Africa. Not really surprising that countries with a more diverse base (and I think better hung-together ethnic fabrics) like Ghana, even Senegal are doing better at building up. ---
**Author:** ![DoubleS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@DoubleS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleS)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/109 "2010-03-18T14:59:37Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > This is getting old-literally..most sub-saharan african states are now 2+ generations removed from colonial pasts. > The sad thing is, no matter how rich these places are in resources (like the Congo, Angola, etc.), almost none of the wealthn ever seems to stay in these places. > … > . Most sub-saharan states have the same group of leaders that led them to independence. Most of the resources in these states are controlled by multi-nationals and, usually, foreign companies. Very little of the wealth from these resources go back to the areas were they are generated. Sometimes this is due to mismanagement, corruption and collusion by the _elites_ with foreign companies, in other cases it is due to agreements signed on by the colonial governments which the new African states were required to keep at the pain of sanctions. In almost every other sub-saharan states what were, at independence, the young upcoming intellectuals are currently the old guard still maintaining their hold on power. The few states that have relatively young leaders have got there at the cost of war and civil strife. While there may be exceptions to the rule it does hold in the majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/110 "2010-03-18T15:09:19Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Perhaps to some Jews, but you don’t hear Lebanese calling themselves Semites as an ethnicity, typically. Too bad. Their genetics says otherwise > [@](#): > > Semetic is first and foremost a language group. Are you alleging that ethnographers don’t use Semitic as a category? Or that they’re wrong to? Because they do, and they’re not. > [@](#): > > Then you don’t know many actual Turks or Persians. I know enough. None are what I’d call “white” > [@](#): > > Or rather, their general shared Mediterranean ancestry. Shared Levantine Ancestry. The other ancestry for some of those is distinctly more Nordic - the Spanish, especially. > [@](#): > > And as Spaniards and Greeks and Italians are typically called “white” Only the last 75-100 years or so. > [@](#): > > … but then this properly highlights the idiocies of such distinctions, as rather clearly Lebanese are being peeled off from Greeks for cultural reasons. Are you alleging Greeks and Lebanese have shared ancestry here? Because you’d be wrong on the basis of the current genetic understanding. > [@](#): > > Fine, silly distinction to make, although perhaps not useless given the two racialists in the argument. It’s not a silly distinction when the \*original \*argument was to distinguish between European and African adoption/development of Agriculture. In that case, distinguishing between strictly European and strictly non-European groups is quite useful. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/111 "2010-03-18T15:14:27Z")
> [@DoubleS](#): > > Most sub-saharan states have the same group of leaders that led them to independence. Correct. > [@](#): > > Most of the resources in these states are controlled by multi-nationals and, usually, foreign companies. Incorrect. Most of the mineral wealth is extract, on a concession (government license) basis OR run by national companies (state firms). The major difference between the two is national companies are more corrupt, less efficient, more wasteful and actually generate less benefit for their supposed mother country objective. The national government controls the wealth; it being trivially easy to send some young lads with Kalashinkov’s round to exercise sovereignty over the mines. The concessionnaires pay fees and then “walking about money” to the national government and its reps. > [@](#): > > Very little of the wealth from these resources go back to the areas were they are generated. Quite, it gets skimmed off by national government, and as a concessionnaire, you’d be bloody mad to locate processing facilities in country, given the kleptocratic habits of said governments & officials. > [@](#): > > Sometimes this is due to mismanagement, corruption and collusion by the _elites_ with foreign companies, Bollocks, it’s always due to corruption and rent-seeking. Foreignness has fuck all to do with it, national companies - the state monopolies put in place after independence are far worse all around than any multinational. > [@](#): > > in other cases it is due to agreements signed on by the colonial governments which the new African states were required to keep at the pain of sanctions. **Pure fiction** There is not a single concession in post-indepence Africa that has not been subjet to renegotiation. The only sanctions (on a national basis) that have arisen are from outright expropriation of investments - nationalisation - without payment for the invested assets. Popular activity in the early 1970s, ended up as a disaster. Now, I have some sympathy for the late 1960s pressures on firms to Africanize. Pure racism kept quality people out of positions. Thing of the past now, but nationalisations in that era were understandable given the history. Ended up being a right bloody disastrous tool, but understandable. Nowadays, your average multinational wants as much of a local workforce as possible, rather cheaper. Of course, given disastrous educational systems and massive corruption in diploma granting, getting to that point is damned hard in some countries. (Others, with better governance, it’s a quite achievable objective - most of West Africa is fine in this respect, Central Africa, ex-Gabon, bloody hell…) ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/112 "2010-03-18T15:24:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Too bad. Their genetics says otherwise Fine provide me a cite on the genetic coherence of Semitic language speakers. Not that ethnicity = genetics, … well indeed, that’s the whole bloody point, ethnicity does not = genetics. Nor language. I shall be very intrigued to see a genetic coherence of Southern Yemenis with Northern Syrians, never mind the range of Arabic language speakers across that world. > [@](#): > > Are you alleging that ethnographers don’t use Semitic as a category? I’m not commenting on “ethnographers.” In any case, you’re rather bought into your own meaning of White. Fine, although I find it queer to see Nordic ancestry claimed for the Iberians (presumably as a substantial influence, of course we all know about the Gothic invasions). (and re Levantine and Greek shared heritage, I rather suggest a reflexion on the classic age interactions, the Sea Peoples, and others very evidently banging about the Eastern Med) This really isn’t terribly enlightening. > [@](#): > > It’s not a silly distinction when the \*original \*argument was to distinguish between European and African adoption/development of Agriculture. Strikes me as right silly insofar as neither term strike me as particularly meaningful in talking about populations living 15 thousand odd years ago, and not necessarily in the same spots as the modern descendants. I believe it came up in reaction to someone making the remark about “White” Africans. Understand how that might push buttons, but doesn’t make European versus Levantine re Cathage a > [@](#): > > In that case, distinguishing between strictly European and strictly non-European groups is quite useful. The very proposition of “strictly European” and “strictly non-European” relative to the Mediterranean basin is what I object to as not useful at all, and most particularly relative to Carthage. On the other hand, regardless of whether one takes your line of thought or mine, we still end up in the same place relative to the racialist analysis I dare say. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/113 "2010-03-18T18:44:13Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Fine provide me a cite on the genetic coherence of Semitic language speakers. [Cite 1](http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html), see the below bits on Phoenicians for more. I didn’t say the Semitic ethnicity exactly overlaps the language. In fact I said quite the opposite - that there seem to be three main branches of Semitic speakers: a Levantine/Peninsula one(the ethnic “Semites”), a Mesopotamian one (“Akkadian”/“Assyrian”) and a Horn of Africa one (“Ethiopian”). Of course, all sorts of admixtures happen (like the Crusades - the reason there are bits of Lebanon where they have blonde hair). But they are not the Lebanese norm, nor the Phoenician one: [these guys](http://www.democracyinlebanon.org/images/Phoenicia.jpg) are. As to the Sea Peoples: [ > [@](#): > > “The Phoenicians were the Canaanites–and the ancestors of today’s Lebanese,” says Wells. That result extinguishes Wells’ theory that the migrating Sea Peoples interbred with the Canaanites to create the Phoenician culture. > > “The Sea Peoples apparently had no significant genetic impact on populations in the Levant,” he explains. “The people living today along the coast where the Sea Peoples would have interbred have very similar Y-chromosome patterns to those living inland.\*\* They are basically all one people.\*\*” ]([DEMOCRACY IN LEBANON - Who were the Phoenicians?](http://www.democracyinlebanon.org/Documents/CDL-Documentaries/Phoenicians%28NatGeo%29.htm)) [ > [@](#): > > Spencer Wells of the Genographic Project has conducted genetic studies which demonstrate that male populations of Lebanon, Malta, Spain and other areas which are past Phoenician settlements, share a common m89 chromosome Y type,[9] while male populations which are related with the Minoans or with the Sea Peoples have completely different genetic markers. This implies that Minoans and Sea Peoples probably didn’t have any ancestral relation with the Phoenicians. ]([Phoenicia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicians#Origins:_2300-1200_BC)) > [@](#): > > Strikes me as right silly insofar as neither term strike me as particularly meaningful in talking about populations living 15 thousand odd years ago, and not necessarily in the same spots as the modern descendants. I haven’t really been concerning myself with modern descendants, I’ve only addressed it when others raised it. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, regardless of whether one takes your line of thought or mine, we still end up in the same place relative to the racialist analysis I dare say. No doubt. Anyway, I think it’s all very interesting science, as a geography & archeology student it interests the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/114 "2010-03-18T21:07:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Belowjob 2.0 > Frost knows very little about Africa. His specialty is First Nations Canadians. His writings on Africa are pure speculation. It goes without saying, of course, that his knowledge of genetics wouldn’t pass muster with geneticists. Frost is probably right about polygyny increasing selection for men. Also, about high food self-sufficiency among women and correspondingly high polygyny rates among men. See Cochran & Harpending discuss some of the possible implications here: > [@](#): > > There are several ways in which female farming systems might have opened up new behavioral niches or greatly expanded existing ones. Females in these societies often have children by more than one male, because pair bonds are fragile. Hence siblings are more likely to be half rather than full siblings. This increases the extent to which individuals in the same family have genetic conflicts of interest; it exacerbates such conflicts between parents, between parent and offspring, and between siblings. Children that are in some sense “difficult” may have a survival advantage in these conditions. One study found that a sample of difficult infants survived a drought at a higher rate than easy infants (18). Further, whenever paternal investment decreases, paternal genetic quality becomes relatively more important. The 7R allele may facilitate risky “show-off” behaviors that exhibit good genes: cad societies are characterized by male posturing and machismo, “protest masculinity” in an older terminology. Most obviously, energetic unpredictable adult males may enjoy a competitive advantage in the face-to-face male competition and violence that characterize these groups. Chagnon (19) has shown that there is a fitness payoff to warriors and those with such a reputation among the Yanomamo of Amazonia. [http://www.pnas.org/content/99/1/10.long](http://www.pnas.org/content/99/1/10.long) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/115 "2010-03-19T04:53:22Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Frost is probably right about polygyny increasing selection for men. Also, about high food self-sufficiency among women and correspondingly high polygyny rates among men. See Cochran & Harpending discuss some of the possible implications here: > > [http://www.pnas.org/content/99/1/10.long](http://www.pnas.org/content/99/1/10.long) Based on what? The admiration of one fabulist for another? There are a number of African ethnic groups where a man’s opportunities for marriage depended on whether he could raise enough cattle or grow enough crops to pay the price for a bride. Men with no resources couldn’t marry at all. Men with lots of resources could and did have multiple wives and correspondingly larger numbers of offspring. I’m guessing the racialist pseudo scientists ignore this basic fact of African cultures because it makes their argument fall apart. Or maybe ignorance is bliss. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/116 "2010-03-28T22:22:11Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Based on what? The admiration of one fabulist for another? > > There are a number of African ethnic groups where a man’s opportunities for marriage depended on whether he could raise enough cattle or grow enough crops to pay the price for a bride. Men with no resources couldn’t marry at all. Men with lots of resources could and did have multiple wives and correspondingly larger numbers of offspring. > > I’m guessing the racialist pseudo scientists ignore this basic fact of African cultures because it makes their argument fall apart. Or maybe ignorance is bliss. Heh @ pseduo scientists. I’m providing peer reviewed articles, you’re providing personal opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/117 "2010-03-29T04:12:50Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Heh @ pseduo scientists. I’m providing peer reviewed articles, you’re providing personal opinions. None of the peer review has been done by people who have any expertise in Africa. That’s why your sources make such fundamental errors when they attempt to talk about Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/118 "2010-03-29T04:23:10Z")
The OP asked about African history, politics, economics, and development. You haven’t addressed any of that. What you have done is try to use this inquiry to advance your pseudo scientific racialist ideology. Your laughable, absurd position is that you don’t need to actually know anything about Africa to diagnose the sources of Africa’s problems. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/119 "2010-03-29T05:06:27Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > The OP asked about African history, politics, economics, and development. You haven’t addressed any of that. > > What you have done is try to use this inquiry to advance your pseudo scientific racialist ideology. Your laughable, absurd position is that you don’t need to actually know anything about Africa to diagnose the sources of Africa’s problems. Actually, here is what the OP asked: > [@](#): > > Are the after effects of colonialism to blame for most African countries current problems? > > This claim seems to be a point of contention in this thread. The after effects of colonial expolitation, and more specifically the somewhat arbitrary geographical and political division of the African continent which crosses many historical tribal and ethnic boundaries, by colonial powers, is often blamed as the genesis for most of the current woes besetting African countries. > > Is this a reasonable position, or are the after effects of colonialism not manifestly responsible for the current social and economic woes of many African countries? Would Africa still be a basket case even if it was never colonized? I’ve simply concurred with Wesley Clark’s point at post #7, that colonialism is not to blame for the ongoing problems. There is a growing body of research showing the importance of cognitive abilities in economic growth and development (see below). I’m just repeating the observation of James Watson that the testing shows average group differences so the ongoing problems aren’t necessarily due to colonialism. > [@](#): > > A large amount of studies published in the last two decades has shown that cognitive ability levels of societies are relevant for the development of positively valued aspects of peoples and countries. Following an economic research tradition “human capital” is relevant for economic growth and wealth (Hanushek & Kimko, 2000; Lynn & Vanhanen, 2002, 2006; Jones & Schneider, 2006; Weede, 2006; Rindermann, 2008a). In addition, cognitive ability of nations has a positive impact on political development, in that it helps building up democracy, the rule of law and political liberty (Simpson, 1997; Rindermann, 2008b). Intelligence, knowledge and the intelligent use of knowledge also have beneficial effects on health, for instance they act as a brake on the spread of HIV (Oesterdiekhoff & Rindermann, 2007; Lakhanpal & Ram, 2008; Rindermann & Meisenberg, 2009). Finally, cognitive competence is relevant for the development of modernity as a societal and especially as a cultural phenomenon consisting of education, autonomy, liberty, morality and rationality (Habermas, 1985/1981; Meisenberg, 2004; Oesterdiekhoff, 2008; Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg, 2009). Societies at a higher ability level develop more complex, more evidence-based, more ethical and more rational world views. > > For some scholars like Georg Oesterdiekhoff (2000) or Michael Hart (2007) intelligence is the driving force of history. [http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde\_issue\_1-2009\_03\_rindermann\_et\_al.pdf](http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde_issue_1-2009_03_rindermann_et_al.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456/120 "2010-03-29T06:57:41Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Actually, here is what the OP asked: > > I’ve simply concurred with Wesley Clark’s point at post #7, that colonialism is not to blame for the ongoing problems. There is a growing body of research showing the importance of cognitive abilities in economic growth and development (see below). I’m just repeating the observation of James Watson that the testing shows average group differences so the ongoing problems aren’t necessarily due to colonialism. > > [http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde\_issue\_1-2009\_03\_rindermann\_et\_al.pdf](http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde_issue_1-2009_03_rindermann_et_al.pdf) You haven’t demonstrated any of your claims. You have demonstrated a stunning degree of ignorance on the subject matter. Which I suppose is why you’ve repeatedly tried to change the subject to the test score gap between black Americans and white Americans. You’re a blind ideologue. You have one unproven theory which you attempt to apply to a variety of circumstances where it isn’t relevant. Since the OP specifically asked about colonialism in Africa, and you don’t know anything about colonialism in Africa, your contribution adds nothing to the debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-after-effects-of-colonialism-to-blame-for-most-african-countries-current-problems/532456.md?page=7)