# Are the Better Cartoons Designed with Adults in Mind? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 3, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898 "2005-01-03T21:40:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/1 "2005-01-03T21:40:44Z")
During the recent Christmas-New Years’s holidays, I saw several episodes of SpongeBob, Jimmy Neutron, the Simpsons, and a couple of other such shows. First time I’ve seen a cartoon in years. I’m no expert, but it seems the Really Good Cartoons are designed with the adult mind, in mind. Sure, kids can enjoy them, but they lack the life experience, the sense of irony and the absurd, and about 50 other essentials to truly appreciate the subtleties of this underappreciated artform. The Simpsons and Bullwinkle are obvious cases in point, but a strong argument could be made about many other cartoons–both past and present. All of this may be obvious to some folks, but it didn’t click for me until recently. Do you agree or disagree? What other cartoons would appeal to the (playful) adult mind? ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/2 "2005-01-03T22:19:18Z")
Invader ZIM and Rocko’s Modern Life are two other cartoons with adults in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/3 "2005-01-03T22:21:59Z")
A lot of the Looney Tunes were definitely written for adults. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/4 "2005-01-03T22:38:40Z")
As an example, consider the _Looney Tunes - Golden Collection, Volume Two_. The cartoon _What’s Opera, Doc?_ can be played with a commentary track that describes in great detail the artistic and musical influences. The references to Wagner’s Ring cycle are obvious, but the commentary points out the influences from _five_ Wagnerian operas, including a couple that are performed only rarely today. Also, one Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon goes to great lengths to set up an introduction of the Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyam. So clearly the best cartoons have stuff for the more literate audience. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/5 "2005-01-03T22:49:58Z")
Many Warner Bros cartoons do this. Along with Looney Tunes, Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain were definitely written with adults in mind, with their absurdist slapstick, quick wit, and old Hollywood references. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/6 "2005-01-03T23:21:22Z")
Remember that, up until the '60s, Loony Toons and many other cartoons were created to run in the movie theaters before the main picture. So they were definitely designed to appeal to grownups, and it shows in much of the humor. At our local First Night last weekend, one of the movie theaters was running a 12-hour Looney Toons marathon. I saw a couple of hours worth (I had to sit through a 45-minute reel of '60s crap in the middle – the Blue Racer, the Tijuana Toads) and they were pretty good to watch – they hadn’t cut all the “violence” out of them. Quite a different experience watching them in the theater rather than on a TV. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/7 "2005-01-04T00:05:47Z")
The Bruce Timm DC Comics shows? (_Batman; Superman; Justice League_) _South Park_ _Drawn Together_ A _lot_ of anime. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/8 "2005-01-04T00:14:18Z")
Animated cartoons are usually today considered “kiddie fare”, but they have been used for multiple levels and adult audiences since the beginning. Others have mentioned Loony Toons, and Tiny Toons Adventures and its spin-offs kept up this traditions. Entire episodes spoofed Sunset Blvd. and Citizen Kane, for pete’s sake. Think of, say, Krazy Kat or Pogo or Dogpatch and you see that even the early examples were written on multiple levels. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/9 "2005-01-04T00:21:29Z")
Try something from the Anime sector, **Carnac**. And no, I _don’t_ mean Sailor Moon, Dragonball, or Yu-Gi-Oh. Try _Lupin The 3rd_ , if you like comedy or Big Heist films. For tragedy, try _Grave Of The Fireflies_ . There’s romance, sports stories, science fiction, pron… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/10 "2005-01-04T00:24:19Z")
PowerPuff Girls are like that too. They had a fantastic Beatles parody episode, which rivals the Simpsons’ “B-Sharps” episode in cleverness. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/11 "2005-01-04T00:42:17Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > Others have mentioned Loony Toons, and Tiny Toons Adventures and its spin-offs kept up this traditions. Entire episodes spoofed Sunset Blvd. and Citizen Kane, for pete’s sake. I always liked the Animaniacs cartoon where the pigeons spoof “West Side Story”. The pigeons (the Goodfeathers) themselves were parodies of “Goodfellas”, defintely not a kids movie. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/12 "2005-01-04T01:18:20Z")
As an addendum, Chuck Jones has been quoted as saying that they never made Merrie Melodies and Looney Tunes for children; they made them for themselves. Jay Ward (Rocky & Bullwinkle, George of the Jungle) was the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Hoops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoops/32/6408_2.png) [@Hoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoops)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/13 "2005-01-04T06:53:58Z")
Absolutely the best cartoons are for all ages, and I think it’s great. When I was a kid, the Saturday morning cartoons featuring the Warner Bros characters were the only ones that I noticed my dad appreciating. It definitely helped us to bond and encouraged me to try to think more like an adult. My sense of humor was greatly enhanced as a result. Thanks, Chuck Jones, Friz Freling, and all the other animators who didn’t talk down to me when I was a kid! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/14 "2005-01-04T07:32:48Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > PowerPuff Girls are like that too. They had a fantastic Beatles parody episode, which rivals the Simpsons’ “B-Sharps” episode in cleverness. The Beat-Alls ep of the PowerPuff Girls is great. Dexter’s Lab is great, too. On Nick, I like The Fairly OddParents, but find it a little creepy (a scene where Timmy is going to shove a butterfly net up his Dad’s butt to capture the Evil Bug that has crawled up there - it has been made obvious in a sorta subtle way - and Timmy’s dad asks “what - is it Father’s Day already?!” They hit the joke a few times during the cartoon - ewwww. Ultimately though, yeah - it always seems to work better when cartoons are written with adults in mind. Think of the alternative - Smurfs, Care Bears - please, stop me now. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/15 "2005-01-04T08:07:25Z")
Then there’s Adult Swim on Cartoon Network. I’m watching ATHF right now. Anyway, Adult Swim cartoons: Aqua Teen Hunger Force (not for kids) Futurama (more adult, but not too inappropriate for kids, I don’t think), Family Guy (same as Futurama), Home Movies (ditto) The Oblongs (Probably not too kid friendly), it might be different now, since I was without cable for several months. Not AS, but Duckman was certainly adult-oriented. I wish they’d release it to DVD. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/16 "2005-01-04T13:17:03Z")
Personally, I think the real difference is between the cartoons that the writers and animators made to please themselves, versus the ones that were made to please a marketing comittee. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/17 "2005-01-04T14:20:28Z")
Well, I think some hentai are great fun. And adult? You betcha. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/18 "2005-01-04T14:39:07Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > versus the ones that were made to please a marketing comittee. Like 90% of cartoons in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/19 "2005-01-04T14:54:15Z")
Since we are judging them _as adults_, wouldn’t we lend more credit to those designed with us in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898/20 "2005-01-04T14:54:32Z")
This isn’t short-film related, but it does address the question: The head of Pixar (the company who made _Toy Story, Toy Story II, Monsters Inc., Finding Nemo_ and _The Incredibles_) gave an interview recently where he said something like “Children are smart. You don’t have to talk down to them. We make our movies for ourselves, and we trust kids to understand them.” Not an exact quote, but the meaning is clear. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-better-cartoons-designed-with-adults-in-mind/282898.md?page=2)