# Are the Borg dead? (Star Trek: Voyager) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2001, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349 "2001-07-13T08:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/21 "2001-07-15T22:42:53Z")
_posted by Santos L. Halper_ > [@](#): > > **In the Next Generation they didn’t know about them. In Vogager, 7 of 9 was assimilated when she was a little girl (some twenty or so years earlier). She was with her parents, Federation scientists who were studying the Borg.** _posted by zuma_ > [@](#): > > **I don’t remember if this was addressed in the Voyager episode, but the Hansens were on a long-range mission (their ship ended up in the delta quadrant… I’m not sure where they were when they first encountered the borg) and presumably could have been out of communication range of the federation. Then of course they were all assimilated before they could return.** It was “Dark Frontier” – the “epic” Voyager movie which ends, IIRC, with the death of a Borg Queen. That makes three. The reason I don’t recall the ending for sure is because I could not bear to continue watching that episode after the retro-continuity reared its ugly head. Mind you, the Hansens set out on their Jane Goodall project with the Borg _after_ already hearing about them. (From El-Aurian refugees? Is it stated?) As I recall from the episode, they had _applied for a grant_ from the Federation science council or something. They were not able to communicate their findings to the UFP, but Fed scientists must have already known about the Borg, if only vaguely. This doesn’t necessarily contradict Picard & Co.'s ignorance of the Borg when they encountered them in “Q Who?” - but it does fly in the face of the spirit of that episode, which was that Q introduced humanity to the Borg ahead of schedule. (Notwithstanding the hints in early TNG episodes like “The Neutral Zone.”) ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/22 "2001-07-15T22:48:33Z")
Oh, and _First Contact_ implies, nay depicts, a Borg Queen was present on the Cube where Picard was assimilated. This cube self-destructed in “BOBWpt2” – so the Queen must have died there, too. Easy theory: the Borg build their Queens out of spare parts wherever she appears. Her personality exists throughout the Borg consciousness. Indeed, her personality ought to be the focused manifestation of that consciousness (a theory that is frustrated by sloppy and contradictory dialogue). Of course, I’m still pissed at the Borg voice referring to itself as “us” from its first appearance. Shouldn’t that be “I” - as there is only one Borg? Then why do they have such a problem with the concept of I/We in “I, Borg”? Gotta hand it to the Ferengi – they were handled fairly consistently! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/23 "2001-07-15T22:51:29Z")
It’s inevitable, isn’t it, that any discussion of Star Treck turns into a comparative debate on the various series, and nitpicks on continuity violations? IMHO it is. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/24 "2001-07-15T22:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*any discussion of Star Treck turns into a comparative debate \*\* So watch the Dick Van Dyke show. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/25 "2001-07-15T23:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Str8\_Dope** _ > > So the consensus is that the Borg are gone, correct? I’m sorry, which thread are you reading? 😕 The other point I might make is that as the Queen was dying she said something to the elder Janeway along the lines of, “If you succeed, you’ll have changed history, and this will never have happened anyway.” And, of course, she’s right - getting Voyager home many years earlier changed the timeline significantly, meaning Janeway wouldn’t have to travel back in time in the future and kill the Queen. It’s all about alternate timelines. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/26 "2001-07-15T23:25:11Z")
Actually, the queen said that if the remaining sphere succeeds at killing the younger Janeway, then the older Janeway could not come back to kill the queen. They did not touch on the fact, AFAIK, that if Voyager gets back, Janeway will have no reason to travel back in time and therefore the borg will survive. Obviously, the crew thought they were making some kind of impact against the borg. Why would they enter conduit if they thought all their work at destroying unimatrix one and the transwarp network was for naught? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/27 "2001-07-15T23:45:54Z")
I thought she said “If you fail none of this will have happened” a nod to those viewers who detest the reset button; at which point Janeway should have said “But you’re still dead, lady.” There are what, twenty four years of episodes? Continuity must be a bear. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/28 "2001-07-16T05:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Str8\_Dope \* > \*\* And the crew figured out a way to be assimilated without actually being assimilated (same crappy episode). \ I remember when the Borg used to be cool, like in TNG and “First Contact”._\* Remember how Picard had all those psychological problems resulting from his time as Locutus, and how he felt contaminated by the presence of all those Borg implants he could never remove? If only he’d spent some time in group therapy aboard the U.S.S. Hallmark Card, he’d think of it as being no big deal. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/29 "2001-07-16T05:44:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **carnivorousplant** _ > > There are what, twenty four years of episodes? Continuity must be a bear. What is this thing you speak of, “continuity?” 😉 And why would Voyager have gone through the conduit if they couldn’t do damage to the Borg? Um, how about _to get home_? I dunno, seems logical to me. Not that the last episode didn’t both suck and blow at the same time, mind you… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/30 "2001-07-16T06:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > And why would Voyager have gone through the conduit if they couldn’t do damage to the Borg? Um, how about to get home? Hmm… am I the only one who’s always thought that _Voyager_ was like a galactic Gilligan’s Island? ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/31 "2001-07-16T14:06:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > And why would Voyager have gone through the conduit if they couldn’t do damage to the Borg? Um, how about to get home? > > Hmm… am I the only one who’s always thought that _Voyager_ was like a galactic Gilligan’s Island? \*\* …except not as well written… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/32 "2001-07-16T21:26:01Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Hmm… am I the only one who’s always thought that Voyager was like a galactic Gilligan’s Island? > > …except not as well written… My guy stranded on a desert island screensaver has better writing than Voyager… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/33 "2001-07-17T02:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **And why would Voyager have gone through the conduit if they couldn’t do damage to the Borg? Um, how about _to get home_? I dunno, seems logical to me.** The young Janeway made it pretty clear in the episode that she didn’t want to miss an opportunity to do serious harm to the borg even if it meant passing up a chance to go home. Janeway made it clear that damaging the borg had. Why would they go to all that trouble of infecting the queen and destroying the transwarp network if going home would negate all of that? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/34 "2001-07-17T02:33:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > **Janeway made it clear that damaging the borg had.** What a strange way to end a sentence. :rolleyes: I meant to say that damaging the borg had **priority**. ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/35 "2001-07-17T12:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > And why would Voyager have gone through the conduit if they couldn’t do damage to the Borg? Um, how about to get home? > > Hmm… am I the only one who’s always thought that _Voyager_ was like a galactic Gilligan’s Island? \*\* Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale A tale of a fateful trek That started thirty years ago And now has turned to drek And now has turned to drek. The mate was a mighty Maquis guy The skipper strong and stacked Twas not for talent that this crew suffer’d Twas plotlines that they lacked Twas plotlines that they lacked. And now they’re trapped in the Delta Quadrant far away from home With Chakotaaaaaaaay And Janeway, too. Pa- ris, Kim, Torres, and Tuvok A hologram A telepath and a lousy cook Here on _Gilligan’s Trek!_ ---
**Author:** ![madcowmccoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@madcowmccoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madcowmccoy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/36 "2001-07-17T15:46:05Z")
i know this isn’t what you meant, but i think the borg are in fact dead. those guys haven’t scared anyone since the days of “st:tng.” maybe it’s just me. ferengi, klingon, romulan - sure, they’re technically “aliens,” but artistically, they’re pretty much just variations on the original human theme. they still have very familiar concepts like money, sex, greed, good, bad, love, hate. even if you’re a complete non-fan, you can still take a look at, say, a klingon ship or a romulan ship and tell where the command center is. all these alien races have a similar psychology. when the borg first showed up, they were so damn alien. i mean, psychologically, the cube itself was a weapon. you couldn’t figure it out. all you knew was that, every once in a while, they would come suddenly, they would come in force, and they could not be stopped. now we all know exactly how their assimilation process works. now we all know about rotating frequencies, nanoprobes, etc. in the beginning, even you AS THE VIEWER couldn’t figure out how to stop these guys - which was awesome. now everytime i see a borg episode on “voyager,” i’m playing armchair captain and staying two steps ahead of the episode. so depressing…there is nothing rick berman’s incompetance can’t tear down. plus, i liked them better with their chalk white skin than their current frog skin. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/37 "2001-07-17T18:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > - > > plus, i liked them better with their chalk white skin than their current frog skin. \*\* The Borg are fashion hounds??? What weenies! No wonder they are easy to beat now! ---
**Author:** ![ObiWan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e47774/32.png) [@ObiWan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ObiWan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/38 "2001-08-06T21:36:26Z")
Straight from the horse’s mouth (the official [Star Trek](http://www.startrek.com) site) as part of their [Borg](http://www.startrek.com/library/borg/default.asp) section (more specifically the [Borg Queen](http://www.startrek.com/library/borg/individuals/borgqueen.html) section): > [@](#): > > In 2378 the Queen once again had a fateful encounter with Voyager when a future version of Kathryn Janeway came back in time from the year 2404 with technology that could help the lost starship resist the Borg while using a Transwarp Hub as a shortcut home. The Queen was actually approached by Admiral Janeway with an “offer” — to help the Queen prevent Voyager from destroying the Transwarp Hub in exchange for the ship’s safe passage to the Alpha Quadrant. But the Queen wanted more — she wanted to assimilate the technology from the future. The Queen thought she had the upper hand when she attempted to assimilate the admiral, but it turns out the older Janeway was carrying a neurolytic pathogen that proceeded to infect the Collective. That pathogen brought chaos to the Collective, leading to the decapacitation (sic) of the Queen and the destruction of Unimatrix One. **The extent of the damage to the Borg as a whole, and its status as a continued threat to the galaxy, remains unknown at this time.** Also on the [Unimatrix One](http://www.startrek.com/library/borg/vessels/unimatrix1.html) part of the site: > [@](#): > > A massive complex in the middle of Borg space in the Delta Quadrant. Apparently Unimatrix One is the very center of the Borg civilization, and where the Borg Queen primarily resides. In 2378 this complex sustained massive damage when a neurolytic pathogen was introduced into the Collective by Admiral Kathryn Janeway. **It is not known if any portion of Unimatrix One survived this pathogenic attack.** Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/39 "2001-08-07T02:48:41Z")
And did they anywhere bother to explain just what a “neurolytic pathogen” is or what it does? Was it ever explained why, if the Borg had a transwarp conduit opening right near Earth, they never sent an armada of Cubes through to assimilate the Federation instead of two Cubes in ten years? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349/40 "2001-08-07T14:17:44Z")
I really don’t have anything to add – I just wanted an excuse to show off my sig line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-borg-dead-star-trek-voyager/72349.md?page=3)