# Are the Chinese still really communists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162 "2001-11-25T16:54:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162/21 "2001-11-27T00:37:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Wll, tat’s where the Chicoms find themselves. They KNOW Marxism was a fraud and a failure, and they KNOW that Charman Mao wasa murderous madman, and they KNOW they can never return to genuine communism. But they CAN’T ever diaow cmmuns the abstract, because that would eliminate the only justification they have for holding power. \*\* I would have to disagree with the above. All of your CAPITALIZED points are largely incorrect. Mao diverted from Marxism by formenting the revolution among the peasantry rather than the industrial workers. Look at the so-called Chinese communist pantheon, and you’ve got Marx, Engles, Lenin, Mao, Deng and now Jiang. They have never blindly followed Marx. Mao is widely criticized by just about everyone for creating the current population problem, but does not get characterized as a murderous madman by the average Chinese. China can’t _return_ to genuine communism because they never had genuine communism in the first place. The justification for holding power has nothing to do with upholding the communist mantle. The justification is based first upon feeding the people, second by preventing civil war and foreign incursions (remember China had over 100 years of civil war and foreign colonies before the revolution), third by allowing the masses to gain a better standard of living. Sure, one hears a bit of lip service about the communist party, and socialism with Chinese characteristics. Note, the chinese leaders do not talk about communism with regards to the economy, rather they use the term socialism. I’ll freely grant that China realizes that a centrally planned socialist economy was a failure. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162/22 "2001-11-27T04:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dryga\_Yes \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > > **You can also look at places like Taiwan and Singapore as a model. Singapore is hardly a democracy, but has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Actually, singapore would qualify quite well as a totalitarian police state.** > > I’m not saying this isn’t true, this just sounds SO wrong. Do you have a link anywhere for this? Standard of living is such a loose concept, do you have any exact definition? \*\* You’ve obviously never been to Singapore. I’ve been there many times. Its a beautiful, affluent, modern city, with a healthy and educated population. And with public canings, death for drug traffickers and a ban on chewing gum. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162/23 "2001-11-27T16:06:32Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m not saying this isn’t true, this just sounds SO wrong. Do you have a link anywhere for this? Standard of living is such a loose concept, do you have any exact definition? > > You’ve obviously never been to Singapore. I’ve been there many times. Its a beautiful, affluent, modern city, with a healthy and educated population. And with public canings, death for drug traffickers and a ban on chewing gum. Singapore is one of the few cities in the world where you can chat with taxi drivers in two three languages and actually be understood. It is indeed a beautiful city, a very _civilized_ place, and to me it seemed even cleaner than Swiss cdounterparts. Some great nightlife too, and Singapore girls have quite a reputation. There are those in Asia who refer to Singapore as “Asia Light”, which you will probably find quite funny if you have been there. A thoroughly fascinating place, all the more because it is indeed a totalitarian police state, but that doesn’t mean thugs posted at every corner to watch over your shoulder by any means. ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162/24 "2001-11-27T18:14:12Z")
Hey China guy how is imported bussiness there these days? I’m speaking in regard to an ex Hong Kongie living in England bringing back a major wad of money to start some sort of bussiness there. I had an uncle try this a few years ago he bought quarter a million US$ to China and had spent most of it on bribes and taking officials out to dinner. I’ve considered it (bringing back a alot of money to start a bussiness but have been afraid of this happening) .I’m often advised to have a sham wedding with a caucasion girl and have her conduct the bussiness for me as caucasion bussiness people don’t have such hassles of bribery and paying for officials dinner etc.Whats your current take on this? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162/25 "2001-11-28T00:51:06Z")
I’ll email you directly. I’m not a big fan of the bribe route. It just isn’t that efficient. Once you start, you can’t stop. There is no guarantee that you bribe the right guy or the horse you’re backing doesn’t lose favor. there’s a huge informal guanxi network, which isn’t really like bribes, but does involve a lot of dinners. Imports are alright, but it depends on what you’re importing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-chinese-still-really-communists/95162.md?page=1)