# Are the Dems and media becoming over-invested in Trump/Russia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823 "2017-03-10T01:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/1 "2017-03-10T01:12:22Z")
Article from Rolling Stone which suggests there are dangers in the current obsession of the Dems and the media with Trump and his supposed role as a Russian puppet. The whole article needs to be read but I give an extract below. [Why the Russia Story Is a Minefield for Democrats and the Media](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/taibbi-russia-story-is-a-minefield-for-democrats-and-the-media-w471074). > [@](#): > > If there’s any truth to the notion that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian state to disrupt the electoral process, then yes, what we’re seeing now are the early outlines of a Watergate-style scandal that could topple a presidency. > > But it could also be true that both the Democratic Party and many leading media outlets are making a dangerous gamble, betting their professional and political capital on the promise of future disclosures that may not come. > > We have to remember that the unpopularity of the press was a key to Trump’s election. Journalists helped solve the billionaire’s accessibility problem by being a more hated group than the arrogant rich. Trump has people believing he shares a common enemy with them: the news media. When we do badly, he does well. > > Trump calls us “enemies of the people” who purvey “fake news.” Together with what vile ex-CNN turncoat Lou Dobbs calls the “global corporatists” who own the major media companies, we are said to comprise the “opposition party.” > > We can’t afford to bolster these accusations of establishment bias and overreach by using the techniques of conspiracy theorists to push this Russia story. Unfortunately, that is happening. > > One could list the more ridiculous examples, like the Washington Post’s infamous “PropOrNot” story identifying hundreds of alternative media sites as fellow travellers aiding Russia, or the Post’s faceplant over a report about a hacked utility in Vermont. > > There was the “Russian cybercrime arrests” story that multiple outlets incorrectly suggested was linked to last year’s election, or the bizarre series of stories about Russia-linked murders around the world that are supposedly connected to this tale. (Glenn Greenwald at the Intercept noted the similarity between these latter tales and early anti-Clinton paranoia). > > Add all this to fringe-Internet reports about mysterious murders, and soon audiences come to every Russia story with pre-stoked expectations. Those expectations are what allow a paper to turn what may be a page nine story into a front-page sensation. I hadn’t thought of it until reading the story but there are definite similarities between some of the stories being reported and the stuff that right-wing conspiracy nuts poured out about Hillary, etc. Would you agree that there are dangers here for the liberals if there prove to be just peanuts rather than a pot of gold at the end of this Russian rainbow? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/2 "2017-03-10T01:15:33Z")
(Just what I was thinking the whole time. The media is doing a great job discrediting itself with these breathless “revelations” that fizzle out.) > **[Taibbi: Why the Russia Story Is a Minefield for Democrats and the Media](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-the-russia-story-is-a-minefield-for-democrats-and-the-media-126505/)** > > Russia scandals have bloodied the Trump administration. But it carries dangers for those reporting it "Hypothesize for a moment that the “scandal” here is real, but in a limited sense: Trump’s surrogates have not colluded with Russians, but have had “contacts,” and recognize their political liability, and lie about them. Investigators then leak the true details of these contacts, leaving the wild speculations to the media and the Internet. Trump is enough of a pig and a menace that it’s easy to imagine doing this and not feeling terribly sorry that your leaks have been over-interpreted. If that’s the case, there are big dangers for the press. If we engage in Times-style gilding of every lily the leakers throw our way, and in doing so build up a fever of expectations for a bombshell reveal, but there turns out to be no conspiracy – Trump will be pre-inoculated against all criticism for the foreseeable future." … combine it with this story, and you get the idea (yes, anonymous sources. Just like WaPo and NYT): [http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-donald-trump-and-russia-during-election-yielded-no-evidence-of-crimes](http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-donald-trump-and-russia-during-election-yielded-no-evidence-of-crimes) “Intelligence sources say that the FBI investigated a computer tied to Donald Trump’s business but there’s no evidence to date that would warrant criminal charges against any of the president’s associates. The months-long FBI counterintelligence investigation into Russian efforts to influence the 2016 presidential campaign briefly investigated a computer server tied to Donald Trump’s businesses near the end of the election but has not gathered evidence of election tampering to date that would warrant criminal charges against any of the president’s associates, Circa has learned.” “U.S. officials, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said there is widespread frustration among intelligence professionals who have watched in horror as a normally secretive process has been distorted by media leaks and politicians uneducated about how counterintelligence operations actually work.” … oh and big thank you to Maxine Waters for contributing to discrediting Democrats and the media on the matter today: “We already know about the part about the coverage they have on him with sex actions is supposed to be true,” she [Maxine Waters] said, referring to the unverified dossier leaked last year claiming the Russians had sexual and financial blackmail on Trump. “They have said that’s absolutely true, some other things they kind of allude to.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/3 "2017-03-10T01:27:40Z")
Ah some remorse from Democrats? Nah, just worry that their shenanigans will backfire: > **[Inside The Investigation To Get To The Bottom Of Russia’s Role In The Election](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alimwatkins/the-people-investigating-russias-role-in-the-election-worry)** > > The Senate Intelligence Committee has been given sweeping powers, unseen since the Watergate era, to investigate Russian meddling in the US election. As its scope grows to include suspected ties between the Trump camp and Russia, investigators are... “Even some Democrats on the Intelligence Committee now quietly admit, after several briefings and preliminary inquiries, they don’t expect to find evidence of active, informed collusion between the Trump campaign and known Russian intelligence operatives, though investigators have only just begun reviewing raw intelligence. Among the Intelligence Committee’s rank and file, there’s a tangible frustration over what one official called “wildly inflated” expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/4 "2017-03-10T01:49:25Z")
Thanks for the advice. We’ll take it from here. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/5 "2017-03-10T01:53:47Z")
Dupe thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/6 "2017-03-10T02:10:43Z")
Merged. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/7 "2017-03-10T02:22:05Z")
It is always dangerous to set aside your self-discipline. I’ve watched as a number of positive political and social movements and ideals have been damaged or defeated, because the people promoting them got carried away with the “fun” of things such as derision of opponents, or just with some form of “laughing too hard.” The primary key to success, is sticking with the facts, and with careful investigation, and with an honest application of logical reasoning. If opponents of Russian virtual incursions are too careless in pursuing them, the current effort to get everyone to ignore them, and let Putin succeed, will be successful. I am already seeing many Trump supporters and Russian “trolls” make headway, by claiming that ANY false reports about the Russian efforts, is proof that ALL accusations are false. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/8 "2017-03-10T02:31:54Z")
Good thing all those Republican investigations of Benghazi managed to find the real smoking guns of criminal misdoings. Otherwise those probes would have really backfired on Republicans! ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/9 "2017-03-10T03:12:50Z")
The shameless red-baiting and anti-Russian bigotry of the Democrats will indeed backfire, as voters will see through their McCarthy-esque charade. Despite reporting from multiple sources for months that there is no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to tip the election in their favor, Democrats continue to beat the same, old tired drum. It won’t work, and Dems are starting to realize it as that Buzzfeed article shows. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/10 "2017-03-10T03:20:03Z")
No evidence? You mean other than the rather large pile of evidence we’ve already found? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/11 "2017-03-10T03:20:33Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > The shameless red-baiting and anti-Russian bigotry of the Democrats will indeed backfire, as voters will see through their McCarthy-esque charade. Despite reporting from multiple sources for months that there is no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to tip the election in their favor, Democrats continue to beat the same, old tired drum. It won’t work, and Dems are starting to realize it as that Buzzfeed article shows. The only consistent principle Trump has is his deferential attitude towards Russia and Putin. There are serious questions about why he behaves the way he does. The report by the MI6 agent needs to be followed up on, and it is by both domestic and international intel agencies. I’m guessing you felt Benghazi was a major issue that needed endless investigations, how do you feel about the Yemen raid which was botched? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/12 "2017-03-10T03:21:18Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > The shameless red-baiting and anti-Russian bigotry of the Democrats will indeed backfire, as voters will see through their McCarthy-esque charade. Despite reporting from multiple sources for months that there is no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to tip the election in their favor, There’s also reporting from multiple sources that humans never landed on the moon, that the Holocaust never happened, and that vaccines cause autism. The sources that are part of the reality-based community tell a very different story. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/13 "2017-03-10T03:31:21Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > There’s also reporting from multiple sources that humans never landed on the moon, that the Holocaust never happened, and that vaccines cause autism. > > The sources that are part of the reality-based community tell a very different story. There is no reporting from reliable, reputable news organizations that the Holocaust was a hoax or that the moon landing never happened. There is however, reliable reporting that there’s no evidence the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to win the election, which include the following: 1.)['No evidence' Trump campaign aides recruited by Russia, former spy chief says - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-spy-chief-evidence-trump-campaign-aides-recruited/story?id=46013305) 2.)[Full Clapper: 'No Evidence' of Collusion Between Trump and Russia](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597) 3.)[x.com](https://twitter.com/tom_winter/status/831929420973735936?lang=en) There is evidence that Trump campaign aides were in contact with some Russian officials, yes, but not that they colluded together to try to swing the election their way. ---
**Author:** ![Yersenia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e495f1/32.png) [@Yersenia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersenia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/14 "2017-03-10T03:37:46Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > (Just what I was thinking the whole time. The media is doing a great job discrediting itself with these breathless “revelations” that fizzle out.) > > [Taibbi: Russia Story Is a Minefield for Democrats and the Media](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/taibbi-russia-story-is-a-minefield-for-democrats-and-the-media-w471074) > > "Hypothesize for a moment that the “scandal” here is real, but in a limited sense: Trump’s surrogates have not colluded with Russians, but have had “contacts,” and recognize their political liability, and lie about them. Investigators then leak the true details of these contacts, leaving the wild speculations to the media and the Internet. Trump is enough of a pig and a menace that it’s easy to imagine doing this and not feeling terribly sorry that your leaks have been over-interpreted. > > If that’s the case, there are big dangers for the press. If we engage in Times-style gilding of every lily the leakers throw our way, and in doing so build up a fever of expectations for a bombshell reveal, but there turns out to be no conspiracy – Trump will be pre-inoculated against all criticism for the foreseeable future." > > … combine it with this story, and you get the idea (yes, anonymous sources. Just like WaPo and NYT): > > [http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-donald-trump-and-russia-during-election-yielded-no-evidence-of-crimes](http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-donald-trump-and-russia-during-election-yielded-no-evidence-of-crimes) > > “Intelligence sources say that the FBI investigated a computer tied to Donald Trump’s business but there’s no evidence to date that would warrant criminal charges against any of the president’s associates. > The months-long FBI counterintelligence investigation into Russian efforts to influence the 2016 presidential campaign briefly investigated a computer server tied to Donald Trump’s businesses near the end of the election but has not gathered evidence of election tampering to date that would warrant criminal charges against any of the president’s associates, Circa has learned.” > > “U.S. officials, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said there is widespread frustration among intelligence professionals who have watched in horror as a normally secretive process has been distorted by media leaks and politicians uneducated about how counterintelligence operations actually work.” > > … oh and big thank you to Maxine Waters for contributing to discrediting Democrats and the media on the matter today: > > “We already know about the part about the coverage they have on him with sex actions is supposed to be true,” she [Maxine Waters] said, referring to the unverified dossier leaked last year claiming the Russians had sexual and financial blackmail on Trump. “They have said that’s absolutely true, some other things they kind of allude to.” Quit thinking about this as my tribe vs their tribe - trump could care less about you Sure, this could all be for naught but let’s make damn sure it is, besides I’m sure you didn’t mind the Benghazi bullshit - this is much serious, your tribal leader could have committed treason… ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/15 "2017-03-10T05:04:35Z")
The mainstream media have only just begun reporting on the meat of the Trump-Russia scandal. There will be more damning revelations to come. That’s why Putin backed trolls are swarming Twitter and the comment sections of various online outlets in an attempt to sway public opinion. The press is (finally) doing its job by bringing out significant facts and calling for full investigations. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/16 "2017-03-10T05:16:45Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > There is no reporting from reliable, reputable news organizations that the Holocaust was a hoax or that the moon landing never happened. > > There is however, reliable reporting that there’s no evidence the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to win the election, which include the following: > 1.)['No evidence' Trump campaign aides recruited by Russia, former spy chief says - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-spy-chief-evidence-trump-campaign-aides-recruited/story?id=46013305) > 2.)[Full Clapper: 'No Evidence' of Collusion Between Trump and Russia](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597) > 3.)[x.com](https://twitter.com/tom_winter/status/831929420973735936?lang=en) > > There is evidence that Trump campaign aides were in contact with some Russian officials, yes, but not that they colluded together to try to swing the election their way. You’re making a conclusion based on incomplete evidence. It may be that when more complete evidence is available, that your conclusion is correct. It may also be that your conclusion didn’t account for some smoking guns. Let’s have an independent non-partisan special prosecutor put this to rest once and for all. And that includes following up with a trial of President Obama if indeed he ordered secret wiretapping as alleged by President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/17 "2017-03-10T08:24:13Z")
I’m prepared to accept that the Russia stuff is all essentially coincidental, the result of Trump being total garbage as a human, businessman, candidate, and president, and consequently only being able to surround himself with the sort of washed-up losers and has-beens that end up gravitating to Russian influence when nobody takes them seriously in the USA. I also want it to be investigated thoroughly, both for the obvious reasons, and because there are probably other bodies in the basement even if this one isn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/18 "2017-03-10T08:52:55Z")
There may be some truth to the thread title. See the converse: Benghazi & Hillary’s emails. The Republicans have beating those deceased equines for years with nothing to show for it. On the other hand, the Republican’s are in power, aren’t they. Come to think of it … fuck it … sounds like a pretty reasonable strategy at this point. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/19 "2017-03-10T10:20:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No evidence? You mean other than the rather large pile of evidence we’ve already found? Sorry, what evidence of what wrongdoing? tbh, I still not convinced talking is evidence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823/20 "2017-03-10T10:21:35Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > … > There is however, reliable reporting that there’s no evidence the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to win the election, which include the following:… > > There is evidence that Trump campaign aides were in contact with some Russian officials, yes, but not that they colluded together to try to swing the election their way. That Russia might have interferred in the election is but one point of interest. When it comes to Trump and Russia another question involves his financial ties, and the degree to which he might be willing to compromise American interests to protect them. Is the man a russian puppet? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-dems-and-media-becoming-over-invested-in-trump-russia/781823.md?page=2)