# Are the elites blackmailing Trump now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348 "2018-04-13T13:15:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/21 "2018-04-13T17:57:27Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Even skimming it you should have been able to realize it is completely irrelevant to the idea you’re being asked to give some substance to. Who are these elites who can get compromising information out of a FBI raid where the information won’t even be handed to the investigators until it’s been deemed pertinent to the warrant by an independent team. > > No one is saying there’s never been blackmail or that there’s no influence peddling, but getting that kind of information out of an ongoing investigation, and being able to blackmail Trump with it, is a special kind of insidious power. > > I mean, they wouldn’t just need to be able to get that information from the FBI, they would also have to convince Trump it was going to stay hidden if he gave them what they wanted. Why wouldn’t Trump instead use it to immediately take to Twitter and state that the FBI was leaking false information from the investigation, killing multiple birds with one stone, and for once do something good. That version of the FBI would actually need a serious housecleaning. Read about J. Edgar Hoover and Martin Luther King Jr.: > **[‘You are done’: A secret letter to Martin Luther King Jr. sheds light on...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/12/13/an-old-letter-sheds-light-on-fbis-malice-toward-martin-luther-king-jr/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60b64716ad97)** > > FBI director J. Edgar Hoover had earlier called King ‘the most notorious liar in the country.’ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/22 "2018-04-13T18:03:21Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Read about J. Edgar Hoover and Martin Luther King Jr.: > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/12/13/an-old-letter-sheds-light-on-fbis-malice-toward-martin-luther-king-jr/?noredirect=on&utm\_term=.60b64716ad97](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/12/13/an-old-letter-sheds-light-on-fbis-malice-toward-martin-luther-king-jr/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60b64716ad97) What does this have to do with the specific hypothesis you posted about in your OP? How does this answer anyone’s objections, specifically **naita’s**? Why should we believe your blackmail hypothesis when there are so many more obvious reasons for Trump to reverse course of the TPP, many of which have been posted in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/23 "2018-04-13T18:06:37Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > What does this have to do with the specific hypothesis you posted about in your OP? How does this answer anyone’s objections? Why should we believe your blackmail hypothesis when there are so many more obvious reasons for Trump to reverse course of the TPP, many of which have been posted in this thread? I have been trying to dispell the “no, because it would be unprecedented” argument. I rather like the: “he is just being a two-faced politician” angle. Where did I say I was convinced one way or the other? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/24 "2018-04-13T18:11:43Z")
Well, anything’s possible. It’s possible he’s being blackmailed and it’s possible he reversed course because Marvin the Martian threatened him with an illudium pu-36 space modulator if he didn’t sign the TPP. But probably the best explanations are in posts 2 and 5. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/25 "2018-04-13T18:12:19Z")
the op is trying to get some kind of ‘deep state’ conspiracy going ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/26 "2018-04-13T18:23:12Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I have been trying to dispell the “no, because it would be unprecedented” argument. I rather like the: “he is just being a two-faced politician” angle. Where did I say I was convinced one way or the other? The thing is, if you weren’t a person seriously predisposed to conspiracy theories, there’s no way you would have asked the question. What the heck does the chemical attack in Syria have to do with TPP? Or the FBI raid? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/27 "2018-04-13T18:43:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, if you weren’t a person seriously predisposed to conspiracy theories, there’s no way you would have asked the question. What the heck does the chemical attack in Syria have to do with TPP? Or the FBI raid? Trump the candidate was against both, and one of the first things he did in office was withdraw from the TPP: > **[Analysis | A timeline of Trump’s complicated relationship with the TPP](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/13/a-timeline-of-trumps-complicated-relationship-with-the-tpp/?utm_term=.57c82d9be245&noredirect=on)** > > "It’s a rape of our country,” Trump said in 2016. Now he's considering rejoining the trade deal. > **[Donald Trump threatening Syria directly contradicts his campaign promises](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/2017-07-02/ty-article/trumps-syria-threats-directly-contradict-his-campaign-vows/0000017f-e763-d97e-a37f-f767395e0000)** > > \*\*\* The recent news of these two reverals, just after the FBI raid, led me to wonder about the question up for debate. No one is arguing “Yes”, which is a relief. I am getting sick of providing historical and current event info though. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/28 "2018-04-13T20:02:48Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I am getting sick of providing historical and current event info though. Do you believe J. Edgar Hoover is in charge of the FBI today? Or that Christopher Wray has amassed the same kind of power in 8 months that Hoover got from running FBI’s precursor for 11 years, basically create the FBI and then run that for two decades before Martin Luther King Jr. did anything Hoover would notice? Or is it that you fear some other shadow puppeteer that can wield the FBI for their own benefit? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/29 "2018-04-13T20:28:39Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Do you believe J. Edgar Hoover is in charge of the FBI today? Or that Christopher Wray has amassed the same kind of power in 8 months that Hoover got from running FBI’s precursor for 11 years, basically create the FBI and then run that for two decades before Martin Luther King Jr. did anything Hoover would notice? Or is it that you fear some other shadow puppeteer that can wield the FBI for their own benefit? I don’t need to find an exact historical parallel to dismiss the “no precedent” answer. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/30 "2018-04-13T20:40:27Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Trump the candidate was against both, and one of the first things he did in office was withdraw from the TPP: > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/13/a-timeline-of-trumps-complicated-relationship-with-the-tpp/?utm\_term=.57c82d9be245&noredirect=on](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/13/a-timeline-of-trumps-complicated-relationship-with-the-tpp/?utm_term=.57c82d9be245&noredirect=on) > > [https://www.haaretz.com/whdcMobileSite/middle-east-news/syria/trump-s-syria-threats-directly-contradict-his-campaign-vows-1.5490349](https://www.haaretz.com/whdcMobileSite/middle-east-news/syria/trump-s-syria-threats-directly-contradict-his-campaign-vows-1.5490349) > > The recent news of these two reverals, just after the FBI raid, led me to wonder about the question up for debate. No one is arguing “Yes”, which is a relief. I am getting sick of providing historical and current event info though. Again, there is no reason to connect the events. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/31 "2018-04-13T20:58:25Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Again, there is no reason to connect the events. I hope there is no connection. Your question “What the heck does the chemical attack in Syria have to do with TPP?” makes me doubt you understood me. I never connected those two with each other directly. I was noting Trump reversing on both of them shortly after the raid. I assume you mean there is no reason to connect the raid to Trump reversing positions. Again, I hope you are right. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/32 "2018-04-13T21:16:58Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Well, anything’s possible. It’s possible he’s being blackmailed and it’s possible he reversed course because Marvin the Martian threatened him with an illudium pu-36 space modulator if he didn’t sign the TPP. But probably the best explanations are in posts 2 and 5. The Trump style of “negotiation” really doesn’t work in the context of a multi-national organization such as the TPP. What are the chances that Trump would coalesce a consistent and lasting trade policy with the TPP partners? The minute they don’t all toady all he’s got in his arsenal is personal insults and easily recognized fake data. And, he’s never respected policy in the first place. Regardless of ANY other aspects, he would shun the TPP just on that basis alone. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/33 "2018-04-13T21:21:36Z")
I hope it’s not blackmail as well. Let’s list the key players in this liberal elite conspiracy: Attorney General Jeff Sessions ® Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein ® Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller ® FBI Director Jim Comey ® U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman ® Man, those guys are _everywhere_. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/34 "2018-04-13T21:32:07Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > The Trump style of “negotiation” really doesn’t work in the context of a multi-national organization such as the TPP. > > What are the chances that Trump would coalesce a consistent and lasting trade policy with the TPP partners? > > The minute they don’t all toady all he’s got in his arsenal is personal insults and easily recognized fake data. > > And, he’s never respected policy in the first place. > > Regardless of ANY other aspects, he would shun the TPP just on that basis alone. I have no idea what this has to do with what I posted, but I will try to explain. Trump is currently mad at China and provoking a trade war. The TPP provides a way to increase US influence in the Pacific at China’s expense. Thus Trump currently supports it. Tomorrow he may decide that Xi Jinping is his buddy and will again oppose it, but today he supports it. It is just that simple. Most of your points are irrelevant and incoherent. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/35 "2018-04-13T21:36:40Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I hope it’s not blackmail as well. Let’s list the key players in this liberal elite conspiracy: > Attorney General Jeff Sessions (R) > Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (R) > Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller (R) > FBI Director Jim Comey (R) > U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman (R) > Man, those guys are _everywhere_. The deep state is deep, man. **adds additional layer of tinfoil** ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/36 "2018-04-13T22:06:32Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I don’t need to find an exact historical parallel to dismiss the “no precedent” answer. What exactly is the blackmail about? Extramarital affairs? Trump’s first such was all over the NY Post at the time. Stormy Daniels? Why bow to blackmail after the story is out? You think the FBI cares about TPP or Syria? If they are ganging up on Trump, maybe because it is due to Trump dissing them after the Comey firing? (Not a good idea when you have secrets.) BTW, do you think Trump’s double change of opinion on gun control came from blackmail? If there is blackmail afoot, it is coming from Putin and involves videos and loans from Russian banks and dirty money. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/37 "2018-04-13T22:17:45Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I have no idea what this has to do with what I posted, but I will try to explain. > > Trump is currently mad at China and provoking a trade war. The TPP provides a way to increase US influence in the Pacific at China’s expense. Thus Trump currently supports it. Tomorrow he may decide that Xi Jinping is his buddy and will again oppose it, but today he supports it. It is just that simple. Most of your points are irrelevant and incoherent. Of course a unified approach with the TPP11 would carry more weight than the US alone. That’s one reason for having these trade deals. But, it also means that the TPP will decide on sanctions, not just Trump. So, when he woofs at China, China will be looking at the TPP. Plus, when the sanctions turn out not to be that great for the US, the TPP11 isn’t going to just jump and make things all better for Trump. And, it’s not just that simple. The TPP11 dropped more than 20 US-favorable items before they signed. Members are stating opposition to tossing their agreement and going back to negotiations. Beyond that, Trump is not a policy guy (and thus sees policy as blocking what he wants to do) and tends not to approach international issues through working with allies. Even his own party in congress has a hard time working with him. Now, he’s proposing to work with 11 other nations??? Please! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/38 "2018-04-13T22:26:57Z")
Well, yeah, but you are over thinking it. Trump’s thought is more like “China bad! TPP hurt China! TPP good!” Who knows what he will think tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/39 "2018-04-13T22:29:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If there is blackmail afoot, it is coming from Putin and involves videos and loans from Russian banks and dirty money. I see that as tinfoil hat territory. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348/40 "2018-04-13T22:35:34Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The extent to which the Republicans backed TPP was dependent of the relative influence of plutocrats, vs rabid anti-Obamites had on that individual. Trumps initial opposition was just a kneejerk evrything Obama does is bad reaction. Unlikely. There are precious few things that Trump is consistent about, but he’s been harping on “China is unfair” for decades. Long before anyone even knew who Obama was. And TPP looked like another way for China to “take advantage” of us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-elites-blackmailing-trump-now/812348.md?page=3)