# Are the Ferengi in Star Trek supposed to be Jews? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [December 17, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236 "2021-12-17T19:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/21 "2021-12-17T22:43:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What I’ve heard from their creation is that they were created without that in mind, but then some people complained, and that this is why, when they first appear, they clarified they were based on “Yankee traders.” As someone from Connecticut, I’m deeply insulted. If they _had_ to play on stereotypes, how come there couldn’t have been preppy aliens? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/22 "2021-12-17T22:54:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If they _had_ to play on stereotypes, how come there couldn’t have been preppy aliens? Now I’m wondering what alien race (Trek or not) _would_ best fit that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/23 "2021-12-17T22:57:52Z")
Well, there’s that '80s movie where the aliens wore leisure suits. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/24 "2021-12-17T23:21:55Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > And misogyny isn’t something I would attribute to being Jewish. I say this as a Jew (who is surfing the web after sundown Friday), I find Orthodox Judiasm deeply misogynist. Women are expected to do as their told They are not permitted to touch sacred text or count for a minyan (the quorom of ten Jews needed for some services). I’ve read (including on this board) that the rates of domestic abuse are higher in Orthodox Jewish communities. Back To The OP Nah. My friends and I have joked about Ferengi being space Jews, but they really aren’t built on nor do they fit a Jewish stereotype. Their greedy sure, but what else ya got? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/25 "2021-12-17T23:31:24Z")
The name Ferengi is a barely altered variation on “firangi”, the Persian word for the Franks, i.e. Western Europeans, and more specifically rapacious and avaricious European merchants and colonialists. They were explicitly compared to Yankee traders when they first appeared. As @Kropotkin describes, they were very clearly supposed to be stand-ins for European/American colonial-era mercantilist adventurers. They were supposed to be a stark contrast to the utopian, idealistic, post-monetary Federation. They were also supposed to be aliens, though. They got some prosthetics which exaggerated their facial features (and showed of TNG’s superior budget and creature effects - the original Klingons just got some greasepaint and fake mustaches). They were in some ways the opposite of Klingons - short, with crouching postures. I think the posture was actually supposed to look threatening - like they were ready to pounce. As others have pointed out, in their original appearances in TNG, they were opportunistic slavers, pirates, and raiders - much like the historical merchants they were inspired by. And rather unlike contemporary stereotypes of Jews. However, fans didn’t take them seriously as threats or rivals for Our Heroes, so they wound up not being used very much in TNG. In DS9, though, a Ferengi was a natural for the local sleazy bar owner. But since a main character was a Ferengi, and DS9 as a show wanted to explore ideas of diversity and culture clash, and show the Federation in sometimes unflattering ways, Ferengi culture and society were developed in a rather different direction than their early appearances on TNG. In particular, Quark contrasted the Ferengi’s “greedy” but largely non-violent culture with what he saw as a hypocritically militaristic Federation, as exemplified by Starfleet. Indeed, in DS9, particularly the Dominion War arc, we saw a different vision of Starfleet than what was portrayed in TOS and TNG. Sisko’s Starfleet liked to put a fig leaf on it (the _Defiant_ is an “escort” not a warship), but it was a miltiary force, and would use massive violence when called for. If I recall correctly, Quark had a line in one episode to the effect that the largest battle in Ferengi history had fewer than a hundred casualties. To further make the Ferengi less a villain race and more of a culture that simply had very different values than the Federation, as Ferengi society was developed on DS9, they emphasized contracts and legalisms. That made them seem predatory and exploitative to the utopian Starfleet personnel and the spiritual Bajorans. But from the Ferengi perspective, they were peaceful businessmen that never forced anyone to do anything, and scrupulously followed their agreements to the letter. As it happens, most of the actors portraying Ferengi on DS9 were Jewish. Typical American Jewish cadences and mannerisms shaped their performances. And they contributed to constructing Ferengi culture. So they took bits and pieces of American Jewish culture that they knew, and mixed them into their portrayal of Ferengi and Ferengi culture. As well as elements of American Jewish humor. Which there was a lot of room for, since DS9 intentionally used Quark and his fellow Ferengi as comic relief. They added a bit of humor to what could otherwise be a pretty grim show. Sometimes that was at the expense of Sisko and Odo and the other Upright But Kind of Priggish Heroes. But often it was at the expense of the Ferengi themselves. The end result of _all_ of _that_ was that even though I don’t think anyone involved intended to shape Ferengi into Jewish stereotypes, they kind of wound up being shaped into being Jewish stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/26 "2021-12-18T00:54:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The Watto character in The Phantom Menace did strike me as Jewish; both for his nose and his accent… not to mention his avarice. I thought it was pretty blatant, and it offended me. Known for his subtlety, Lucas is not. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/27 "2021-12-18T02:15:01Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > And while we’re talking about Ferengi, can we acknowledge how beyond creepy it is when Dax starts stroking Quarks ears whenever she’s trying to manipulate him? It’s basically an analogy for giving him a hand job. Not something I want to think about when I’m watching Star Trek. Sure, there’s a certain unspoken analogy there, but it fails if you push it very far. After all, ears are meant to be seen in public. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/28 "2021-12-18T02:34:57Z")
Roddenberry said in so many words, and at the time, that they were “Yankee traders”. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/29 "2021-12-18T03:11:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I say this as a Jew (who is surfing the web after sundown Friday), I find Orthodox Judiasm deeply misogynist. Well, they are [_really_ into](https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/08/29/yet-another-case-of-a-woman-asked-to-move-so-she-wouldnt-give-cooties-to-orthodox-jews/) the Pence rule, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/30 "2021-12-18T03:11:35Z")
Well, he COULD have chosen to NOT have them have big noses. To NOT make them short. To NOT have them primarily acted by Jewish actors. Excuse me - Wallace Shawn? No - nothing Jewish about him! Some people here claim they did not see them as resembling a Jewish caricature. To me - and apparently many others - it was obvious. If you are unaware of the caricature they remind me of, well, your experiences are obviously different than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/31 "2021-12-18T03:16:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Some people here claim they did not see them as resembling a Jewish caricature. To me - and apparently many others - it was obvious. Are you Jewish? I think that stereotypes are meant to be understood by people not of the group. I’m not Jewish, and it never occurred to me that Ferengi fit a Jewish stereotype. If they were supposed to be a caricature, it failed. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/32 "2021-12-18T03:43:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If you are unaware of the caricature they remind me of I’m very aware of the stereotype. I just don’t see it here. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/33 "2021-12-18T04:20:47Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Indeed, in DS9, particularly the Dominion War arc, we saw a different vision of Starfleet than what was portrayed in TOS and TNG. Sisko’s Starfleet liked to put a fig leaf on it (the _Defiant_ is an “escort” not a warship), but it was a miltiary force, and would use massive violence when called for. If I recall correctly, Quark had a line in one episode to the effect that the largest battle in Ferengi history had fewer than a hundred casualties. Star Fleet was depicted as a military in TOS. In “Errand of Mercy” Kirk even tells the Organians he’s a soldier not a diplomat. It wasn’t until TNG that the ridiculous notion of Star Fleet being a non-military organization took root. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/34 "2021-12-18T04:37:25Z")
In the Klingon and Romulan episodes of TOS, Starfleet is often depicted as a military force. In other episodes, not so much. Kirk explicitly states in a number of episodes that they’re explorers, and are only armed for self-defense. TOS was kind of all over the map on a _lot_ of aspects of Starfleet (even the name - we get four different service names before “Starfleet” is established as the name of the service). Anyway, my point was, the military aspects of Starfleet are emphasized in DS9, and portraying the Ferengi as non-violent businessmen (and just kind of memory-holing the early depictions of them as violent, piratical slavers) was a deliberate contrast to that. Unfortunately, and I think entirely unintentionally, that was one of the elements that shifted the Ferengi into resembling anti-semetic stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/35 "2021-12-18T04:49:32Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > In the Klingon and Romulan episodes of TOS, Starfleet is often depicted as a military force. In other episodes, not so much. Kirk explicitly states in a number of episodes that they’re explorers, and are only armed for self-defense. ♫ [_We come in peace. Shoot to kill, shoot to kill…_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE) ♫ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/36 "2021-12-18T06:02:19Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > The name Ferengi is a barely altered variation on “firangi”, the Persian word for the Franks, i.e. Western Europeans, and more specifically rapacious and avaricious European merchants and colonialists. They were explicitly compared to Yankee traders when they first appeared. As @Kropotkin describes, they were very clearly supposed to be stand-ins for European/American colonial-era mercantilist adventurers. Thank you! I read the first 24 posts in this thread thinking “are all these Trek fans talking about the Ferengi just completely unaware of where the name came from?” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/37 "2021-12-18T14:08:59Z")
And may have seen any of SiamSam’s posts about “Farangs” who fall in love with Thai sex workers ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/38 "2021-12-18T14:20:46Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Anyway, my point was, the military aspects of Starfleet are emphasized in DS9, and portraying the Ferengi as non-violent businessmen (and just kind of memory-holing the early depictions of them as violent, piratical slavers) was a deliberate contrast to that. Unfortunately, and I think entirely unintentionally, that was one of the elements that shifted the Ferengi into resembling anti-semetic stereotypes. Many merchants, including the fictional Robinson Crusoe, were also “violent, piratical slavers” ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/39 "2021-12-18T15:06:28Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Many merchants, including the fictional Robinson Crusoe, were also “violent, piratical slavers” Umm, yes, I know: > [@gdave](#): > > As others have pointed out, in their original appearances in TNG, they were opportunistic slavers, pirates, and raiders - much like the historical merchants they were inspired by. And rather unlike contemporary stereotypes of Jews. As I’ve pointed out twice now (and I’m pretty sure I’m agreeing with you), in their original appearance in TNG, Ferengi were very deliberately portrayed as stereotypes of the worst aspects of colonial-era European and American merchant adventurers. In DS9, the violence, piracy, and slavery, and other elements, were retconned away, and new elements added to Ferengi culture, and I think accidentally the Ferengi wound up being a lot closer to anti-Semitic stereotypes. (Total sidetrack, but the way Orion culture is portrayed in _Lower Decks_, which is consistent with their expanded universe depictions, is pretty close to what Ferengi originally were supposed to be). ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236/40 "2021-12-18T15:23:38Z")
I always thought the Ferengi were supposed to be [Reggie Miller](https://twitter.com/dsmall75/status/447107821180440576/photo/1). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-ferengi-in-star-trek-supposed-to-be-jews/956236.md?page=3)