# Are the Iraqis really better off? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513 "2004-05-22T12:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/41 "2004-05-25T12:17:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I will point out that it is completely possible for the WMD to have been the motive- and that GWB was just wrong… > > Note that those Sanctions were **UN** sanction, not any unilateral US sanction… > > Chlorine? Don’t make me laugh- Saddam wanted Chlorine to make chemical weapons… > > Yes, the Iraqi’s are better off… blah blah blah Bush taking point lies blah blah blah. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/42 "2004-05-25T12:58:21Z")
Well, I’m not Iraqi, nor am I in Iraq, so I can’t really say…why don’t we ask them? 🙂 [http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/](http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/) (this one’s my favorite, because it’s so hard to find anything positive to read about Iraq, and I think everyone needs hope) [http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/) (there’s links to many other blogs some Pro-American, some Anti, some ambivalent on the right-hand side bar, under Iraqi Blogs. There’s some soldiers’ blogs as well a bit further down) ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/43 "2004-05-25T18:54:19Z")
> [@Cerri](#): > > [http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/](http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/) (this one’s my favorite, because it’s so hard to find anything positive to read about Iraq, and I think everyone needs hope) Thanks for posting the link, I hadn’t read this one before. Don’t mean to hijack this thread and even less attack **Cerri**. But I did “notice something”. (Slight hijack follows) > [@](#): > > On the road to the residents’ house we passed near the coalition base in Samawa; the striking and ugly feature of this base, like any other one is, the concrete wall that surrounds it. These walls initiate a sensation of fear in the hearts and a feeling that there’s a huge block between the people and the coalition. I understand the security necessity of these walls but they still form an unpleasant sight for everyone, except this particular one. The coalition forces here invited all the kids-and their parents-in the neighborhood for a special festival, the kids were given paints and brushes and a definite area of the wall was assigned for each kid to paint on whatever he likes and to sign his painting with his/her name. I leave it for you to imagine how this hateful wall looked like after this festival. It became a fascinating huge painting that gives a feeling of brotherhood and friendship. These paintings eliminated all the psychological walls between the folks and the coalition here. My initial response… hey, great stuff. Why can’t they do more of _this_ and less of [that other thing](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221658,00.html)? I’d be all for it. Then I noticed the reading on my BS-O-Meter. If I’m not mistaken this base is **[Japanese](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FB19Dh05.html)**. Call me prejudiced but I would’ve wanted to have seen this mentioned. Also this blogger has photos of everything, why not this thing? Googling, I found no other mention of such a thing (children painting a coalition base) anywhere. And this is not the only item in that blog that caused the needle to twitch on my BS-O-meter. Can anybody help me prove that this story is real? I want nothing more than to believe this is real but I’m unable to do so right now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/44 "2004-05-26T00:08:20Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > blah blah blah Bush taking point lies blah blah blah. Insightful & well thought out rebuttal of my post. Thank you, I shall remember this in the years to come. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/45 "2004-05-26T00:21:33Z")
Great, news reports all over the place about concrete evidence AQ is hitting the US this summer. (probably bullshit, but still) The reason why you ask? Well, they’re pissed about the Iraq war. :rolleyes: So I’m glad someone is better off, but in the future I’d prefer it to be us. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/46 "2004-05-26T15:50:20Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Great, news reports all over the place about concrete evidence AQ is hitting the US this summer. (probably bullshit, but still) > > The reason why you ask? > > Well, they’re pissed about the Iraq war. :rolleyes: > > So I’m glad someone is better off, but in the future I’d prefer it to be us. Of course their real reason is they just don’t like the U.S. and Israel, Iraq invasion or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/47 "2004-05-26T17:08:46Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > Thanks for posting the link, I hadn’t read this one before. Don’t mean to hijack this thread and even less attack **Cerri**. But I did “notice something”. (Slight hijack follows) > My initial response… hey, great stuff. Why can’t they do more of _this_ and less of [that other thing](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221658,00.html)? I’d be all for it. > > Then I noticed the reading on my BS-O-Meter. > > If I’m not mistaken this base is **[Japanese](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FB19Dh05.html)**. Call me prejudiced but I would’ve wanted to have seen this mentioned. Also this blogger has photos of everything, why not this thing? Googling, I found no other mention of such a thing (children painting a coalition base) anywhere. > > And this is not the only item in that blog that caused the needle to twitch on my BS-O-meter. > > Can anybody help me prove that this story is real? I want nothing more than to believe this is real but I’m unable to do so right now. Can’t really comment on the particular story, but the blog and blogger are authentic: [http://home.hiwaay.net/~webspace/bloggers.jpg](http://home.hiwaay.net/~webspace/bloggers.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/48 "2004-05-26T18:58:17Z")
[Business Guide for Iraq](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:dK9eAUlXIIAJ:www.export.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_business_guide_current.pdf+iraq+water+site:export.gov&hl=en) _U.S. Department of Commerce Revised March 5, 2004_ **V. OVERVIEW OF KEY INDUSTRY SECTORS** **Water:** The Ministry of Public Works recently announced that average daily availability of water services i n Iraq is **one-hour above pre-war levels**. Over 90 percent of the urban population is thought to have access to water, but quantities per capita are insufficient. It is estimated that 60 percent of the overall population has access to potable water. In many neighborhoods, leaking pipes have contaminated potable water networks. The water treatment system in Iraq consists of 218 traditional water treatment plants and 1,191 mobile compact water treatment plants that mainly serve rural areas. Baghdad’s water distribution system consists of nine large dams, 18 major barrages, and 275 pump stations. The equipment used in these pumps stations is over 20 years old. The Ministry has plans to ensure that the 90 percent of Iraqis who currently have access receive clean water by 2004, and that all Iraqis have access to clean water by 2005. The Ministry’s plan also calls for extending sewage treatment to 15 percent of the country by the end of 2004 and to 30 percent by the end of 2005. Only eleven percent of Iraqi citizens nationwide currently have proper sewage facilities. Only half of the country’s sewage treatment plants are operational. In Baghdad, deteriorating sewage treatment installations are unable to handle increasing flows caused by population growth. Steps taken by the CPA and various non-government organizations (NGOs), in cooperation with the Baghdad city water authorities and the Army Corps of Engineers, averted an immediate water crisis in Baghdad. Projects aimed at improving Iraq’s irrigation syste ms, potable water availability, and wastewater treatment facilities are included within the scope of USAID’s Capital Construction contract. Bechtel is currently working on a project to increase water capacity on the eastern side of Baghdad, increasing flo w from 580 million liters per day to 780 million. Work has also begun in Basrah, Diwaniyah, and Hillah on sewage treatment plants. \*\*[Electricity Production in Iraq Remains Below Pre-War Levels\*\*](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:21VPGKDwAfAJ:newstandardnews.net/content/%3Faction%3Dshow_item%26itemid%3D345+hours+electricity+iraq+pre-war&hl=en) _Baghdad , May 14 by Dahr Jamail_ Iraqi officials say the power supply in their country has not yet been repaired to pre-war levels. Currently, even in the best neighbourhoods of Baghdad there is only twelve hours of electricity per day, and this only intermittently. Most areas of the city have between six and eight hours of power per 24 hours. Baghdad resident Salam Obidy is frustrated by the unreliability of the electrical grid. “I have three hours on, and four hours off,” he said. “Mostly it is completely unscheduled. Yesterday I spent all night not sleeping because it was so hot.” Not much different than \*\*[DRAFT WORKING PAPERS\*\*](http://www.export.gov/Iraq/pdf/dod_wklyrpt_050404.pdf) Iraq Status _[size]03 1505 EST May, 04 page 24_[/size] And not in conflict with: [Business Guide for Iraq](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:dK9eAUlXIIAJ:www.export.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_business_guide_current.pdf+iraq+water+site:export.gov&hl=en) _U.S. Department of Commerce Revised March 5, 2004_ **V. OVERVIEW OF KEY INDUSTRY SECTORS** **Power:** In early October 2003, Iraq’s electricity production exceeded demand for the first time in years. However, to satisfy Iraq’s peak demand for electricity, the country will need 50 percent more generation by summer 2004. Decades of fuel shortages and lack of regular maintenance have severely curtailed dependable electrical supply. Postwar looting and sabotage rendered seven of the country’s major transmission lines inoperable. Given these needs for reconstruction, companies may have numerous and wide-ranging opportunities in the power sector. The United Nations has several projects underway in Iraq, one of which is electricity rehabilitation. In the three northern governorates (Erbil, Dohuk, and Suleimaniya), the UN Development Program (UNDP – [www.undp.org](http://www.undp.org)) implemented the Electricity Network Rehabilitation Program (ENRP – [www.enrp.undp.org](http://www.enrp.undp.org)) to rehabilitate the electricity network across four main sectors: generation, transmission, substations, and distribution. Through ENRP, the UNDP has built up capacity to implement an operation of $800 million. Its work has resulted in power stability for about 380,000 households (2.7 million people). Thus far, ENRP has awarded 25 contracts worth $238 million. The ENRP provides information on current vacancies, invitations for expression of interest, and procurement notices. At the Iraq Donors’ Conference in Madrid, the Ministry of Electricity (MOE) proposed construction of combined cycle power plants, transmission line additions, completion of thermal power stations begun under the Oil for Food Program, and training of technicians. The Minister expressed concerns for environmental sensitivity and security for workers in the electricity sector. The CPA is transitioning securing forces to the MOE. Over 20 electrical facilities have been transferred. During the week February 6 – February 11, 2004, the average peak electricity production was 4034 MWpd. Total megawatt production for the week was an increase of 1.0 percent over the previous week. Electricity production Iraq-wide since November had been relatively steady. Nine 500kV transmission lines and seven 132kV transmission lines continue to be out of service. As of February 6, 758 MWpd of generating capacity was on forced outage and 874 MWpd was on scheduled outage. The Ministry returned two generators to service during the January 31 – February 6 period. Some are playing the number crunching game. The ‘_peak_ production’ is trumpeted while the ‘average’ is not. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/49 "2004-05-26T19:38:30Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Can’t really comment on the particular story, but the blog and blogger are authentic: > > [http://home.hiwaay.net/~webspace/bloggers.jpg](http://home.hiwaay.net/~webspace/bloggers.jpg) Thanks for that link! There are indeed a few pro-American bloggers. Another one I believe is [Hammorabi](http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/). I think a pro-American Iraqi is not more right or more wrong than a pro-American American saying the same things. Or necessarily less biased or more biased. But at least they tend to be more knowledgeable (not always). > [@](#): > > A German reader, who Ali says is “anti-everything,” would like to kill the Fadhils for their pro-American comments. Idiot hothead just like those who wanted Fallujah turned into a “parking lot”. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513/50 "2004-05-26T20:07:48Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Of course their real reason is they just don’t like the U.S. and Israel, Iraq invasion or not. Well, duh. With the Iraq war we’ve laid the ground work for the next generation of terrorists. So to recap, AQ hates US, they want our destruction, Iraq war or not, but it was still a dumb move that makes a bad situation worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-iraqis-really-better-off/246513.md?page=2)