# Are the Irish worth a flip? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293 "2004-10-20T22:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/21 "2004-10-21T11:35:32Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > …t The Republics problems today have alot more to do with the Church-led Nanny State it spent the first 70 odd years of its existence in … You mean those priest are at it with goats too? :eek: Wouldn’t surprise me, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/22 "2004-10-21T11:50:15Z")
The clergy would get up on a scabby leg. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/23 "2004-10-21T12:27:29Z")
Hehehe -(is one allowed to laugh in the Pit?) (Celyn, obeserving that her psoriasis sometimes appears on legs too, makes note to avoid the clergy. But a microsecond’s reflection reassures her that this will pose no problem at all) I’m inclined to wish, though, that the OP had given just a BIT more detail concerning the content of this programme. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/24 "2004-10-21T13:24:46Z")
> [@esquimalt](#): > > I’ll be there for Thanksgiving. Can’t wait. Me too, actually. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/25 "2004-10-21T15:00:49Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > Didn’t you get the memo? We’re blaming everything on terrorism now. ☹ I’m so behind the times. I was still blaming illegal Mexican immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/26 "2004-10-21T15:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=ruadh] God no, it’s a horrible piece of trash. QUOTE] Why? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/27 "2004-10-21T16:08:37Z")
I’ll try to not be as reactionary as I could be, but centuries of [genocide](http://www.noraid.com/Holocaust.htm) has the tendency to make the persecuted party, and their decendents, just a little bitter. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/28 "2004-10-21T16:14:45Z")
Tiocfaidh ar la. What’s the Irish for “our day is here”? Cause it is. We won. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/29 "2004-10-21T16:23:00Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > I’ll try to not be as reactionary as I could be, but centuries of [genocide](http://www.noraid.com/Holocaust.htm) has the tendency to make the persecuted party, and their decendents, just a little bitter. While there is no doubt that over the last 1000 years the English have treated much of the world as ripe for conquest, the is a pretty biased source. For example: ‘Two years of war ensued with the Irish Republican Army, (IRA) fighting the British to a stalemate.’ Now of course there has never been a ‘war’, nor have the IRA (or their political wing Sinn Fein) ever represented any country. What this means phrase means is that the IRA, like any other terrorist group, have bombed men, women and children because they could not get elected in a democracy. They have knee-capped teenagers, robbed post offices + banks and bought arms from sources like Gaddaffi in Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/30 "2004-10-21T16:32:15Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Tiocfaidh ar la. No surrender! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/31 "2004-10-21T16:34:48Z")
[/quote] What this means phrase means is that the IRA, like any other terrorist group, have bombed men, women and children because they could not get elected in a democracy. [/quote] Yes, Noraid is a very biased source. But then again,. it’s not as if the British government hasn’t resorted to using terror tactics either. Dresden, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/32 "2004-10-21T16:35:04Z")
It’s a bias as fuck site. However in time period that you quoted Sinn Fein most definitely did represent the majority feeling of Ireland (75% of a democratic vote) We Irish do view it as a war. There was no knee capping there was executions of spies and murdering bastards who represented your country by terrorising mine. Irish men joined the IRA and took up arms against British soldiers in Ireland. They fought and fought hard. Try reading _Tom Barry_ by Meda Ryan sometime. In history class we are taught about The War of Independence. Maybe you should learn about it before you say there was no war. Your army and government at the time certainly viewed it as a war. My grandmothers brother was dragged from his house and beaten to death by a group of Black and Tans. Don’t just think of Sinn Fein as Adams and his lot. They have a older history. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/33 "2004-10-21T16:37:04Z")
That post was directed at **glee** BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/34 "2004-10-21T16:43:30Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > And America blames everything on Communism and liberalism. Considering that we’re likely headed for another squeaker of an election, it’s a bit unfair to say that all of us blame everything on liberalism. Obviously at least half of us are fed up with the current administration, but the coalition governments that commonly arise in parliamentary systems are made impossible for us by our own system of nonproportional representation. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/35 "2004-10-21T16:51:52Z")
$^#%@\* liberal Mexican terrorists… ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/36 "2004-10-21T16:59:26Z")
[Anglo-Irish War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_War) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/37 "2004-10-21T17:11:52Z")
Lets see, England is surrounded by Catholic despots intent on breaking her. It boils down to a fight between various religious findamentalists. In Holland, Spanish despots are systematically terrorising the locals due to their Protestantism. Next the Spanish attempt an invasion, which had it landed, would certainly have suceeded, but it turned out a disaster. Over the next couple hundred years, various populations surrounding England place themselves at the disposal of various Catholoc despots intent on crushing England. England decides to make her borders safe, and at the same time seize territory. The Irish make themselves part of a much wider world trade and domination argument, so the English take over. With threats from the Northern borders from Catholic pretenders to the throne, the English crush Scotland and seize it.The Scots had persistantly taken sides with Spanish and French Catholicism which had provided support for various insurrections and attempted seizure of the English crown. Now that is not too far removed from the way the US viewed communism in South America, and around the world, instead though the US installed its puppet governments. The communist threat is all but dried up, so its reasonable to say that this policy worked, and its the same with the English, who crushed local sources of opposition that had made themselves part of a much bigger dispute, and this thenallows Great Britain to become a superpower. The Irish fail to remember that they also played a part in their own tragedy, this does not justify England at all, ut somehow its never mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/38 "2004-10-21T17:23:17Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Lets see, > > England is surrounded by Catholic despots intent on breaking her. It boils down to a fight between various religious findamentalists. > > In Holland, Spanish despots are systematically terrorising the locals due to their Protestantism. > > Next the Spanish attempt an invasion, which had it landed, would certainly have suceeded, but it turned out a disaster. > > Over the next couple hundred years, various populations surrounding England place themselves at the disposal of various Catholoc despots intent on crushing England. > > England decides to make her borders safe, and at the same time seize territory. > > The Irish make themselves part of a much wider world trade and domination argument, so the English take over. > > With threats from the Northern borders from Catholic pretenders to the throne, the English crush Scotland and seize it.The Scots had persistantly taken sides with Spanish and French Catholicism which had provided support for various insurrections and attempted seizure of the English crown. > > Now that is not too far removed from the way the US viewed communism in South America, and around the world, instead though the US installed its puppet governments. > > The communist threat is all but dried up, so its reasonable to say that this policy worked, and its the same with the English, who crushed local sources of opposition that had made themselves part of a much bigger dispute, and this thenallows Great Britain to become a superpower. > > The Irish fail to remember that they also played a part in their own tragedy, this does not justify England at all, ut somehow its never mentioned. Exactly what time period are you refering to? St. Patrick had brought the Catholic faith with him to Ireland nearly a thousand years before the Spanish inquisition. England itself was a Catholic nation until 1531 when Henry VIII broke with the church. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/39 "2004-10-21T17:46:04Z")
Aren’t there more Irish descended humans in the the US than in Ireland at this point? Oh… and not to get off topic, I blame the OP for acting the maggot. ---
**Author:** ![Delly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Delly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293/40 "2004-10-22T02:47:38Z")
I heard the other day that there are about 80 million people around the world of Irish descent, considering the pupulation of Ireland is around 4 million, I guess you could be right Astro. I dont have a cite, a friend said that the other day, I usually take everything he says with a grainof salt but it somehow seems fitting in here [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-irish-worth-a-flip/270293.md?page=3)